TVS new owner

BritTwit

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The V4 Was an Aprilia clone he built (poorly) just to go racing, and boost his ego
Well, I don't think SG raced a V4RR with a Norton engine.
The IoM racer was just an Aprilia RSV4 motor in a Spondon frame.
Clearly, SG favored the Aprilia V4 concept.
I wouldn't call the V4RR engine an Aprilia clone though.
It differed substantially from the Aprilia, and was a joint Norton(Skinner)/Ricardo effort.
Aprilia - 65 degree V4, Norton 72 degree V4.
Crank, clutch, gearbox, and cam drive was also different from the Aprilia.

Whether the Norton V4 was a good design or not, it certainly did not benefit from the type of R & D that other manufacturers heap on their designs before production.
 

Stu Bodycote

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"Just an Aprilia RSV4 motor in a Spondon frame"
If it was that easy to build a 230bhp+ race bike, everyone would be doing it lol.
The Norton V4 TT bike was built, it was ready to go....all cleared to race the TT. McGuinness nagged and whinged about not doing the NW200, saying those that dont do the NW, enter the TT on the back foot. SG had no interest in doing the NW.....I'd imagine for cost reasons more than anything. But ended up entering. The NW regs were 1ltr max....so a bike had to be cobbled together quickly...essentially/predominantly Josh Brooks old bike. The TT organiser's then did a 180° turn, and decided that Norton couldnt run the 1200cc (the small print for each class allowed pretty much any bike in at the organiser's discretion)....so the old Aprilia engined bike had to run at the TT as well. When running the Aprilia motor, the swingarm also has to be changed back to the twin spar standard swingarm, as the different V angle meant the exhaust headers would foul on the single sided swingarm design of the V4ss. So a lot of very old and tired stuff has to be reused at short notice. Each year the motors would go back to Aprilia Racing to be refreshed....I doubt they got that for 2019. Clearly nothing was coming together for the TT though, the Superlight wasn't race ready in a performance sense...although obviously Hickey saw some potential in it....and the final straw was the head popping off a lower engine bolt on Johns v4 bike, as we've all seen in the photo by the Gooseneck. Shame as previous years showed fairly steady progression. Personally, I think bringing McGuinness on board was a big mistake. He's a massive name, so great for the PR etc, but he was also an injured bird that, in my opinon, has struggled to keep up with the new wave of top tier TT riders...confirmed by this years TT.
 
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City Garage

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SG Didn't produce any new models,
He just brought out another re badged 961s
Special addition
Limited addition
Anniversary addition
CR addition
FS addition
Even a California addition
All off the back of Kenny Dreer's concept!
?????

Almost every manufacture has these editions so nothing special there. Kenny copied Harley-Davidson for so much of his original designs so he did it off the back of them.
 

BritTwit

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So, they've "ruined the bikes character"?

Do I have to start saying things like "I prefer my Manx:"?
Not to worry, the 961 has character to spare.
We don't yet know what other 961 "character points" Norton has fixed.
Like the funky EFI system, or clutch basket, oil in the airbox, etc.....ad infinitum.
I have confidence that more than enough character will remain in the NEW 961.
Hopefully, just enough of the worst will be removed.
 

Clive

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Well, if the account is true, we know the lion share of the noise is generated in the primary.
So, my guess would be a revised intermediate/backlash gear design.
I know they were investigating its unique soundtrack and I did pass on the suggestion from this forum that the backlash gear may be incorrectly engineered the wrong way round and Chris T said an engineer would be looking into it......

If losing the character of the bike means not spilling its engine guts down a motorway at 100mph then I might just be able to live with that.....

With time to contemplate while away on a cruise ship I know we are all getting impatient but I think we really need to be grateful that we have a nice new Norton factory here in a traditional bike manufacturing region instead of rebadged Chinese 125s buzzing into the country with Norton tank logos which could so easily have been the case.
 
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Voodooo

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I know they were investigating its unique soundtrack and I did pass on the suggestion from this forum that the backlash gear may be incorrectly engineered the wrong way round and Chris T said an engineer would be looking into it......

If losing the character of the bike means not spilling its engine guts down a motorway at 100mph then I might just be able to live with that.....

With time to contemplate while away on a cruise ship I know we are all getting impatient but I think we really need to be grateful that we have a nice new Norton factory here in a traditional bike manufacturing region instead of rebadged Chinese 125s buzzing into the country with Norton tank logos which could so easily have been the case.
But China makes / owns the 961 motor rights.
 

cliffa

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But China makes / owns the 961 motor rights.
My guess is the engine will be changed enough (on the new breed) to get around that. Presumably the 40 that are being delivered as we speak were built from existing stock?
 
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But China makes / owns the 961 motor rights.
Every contract is written , if done properly to protect both parties . We have no idea what was written in the contract. My guess is that most of the 961 parts were sourced from the Pacific rim already. Why not pen a deal to consolidate it to one reliable/reputable source ? This way the Norton get the best economies of scale. This remember was written during the SG era when there was a difficulty in finding a steady supply with limited funds.
 

Voodooo

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Every contract is written , if done properly to protect both parties . We have no idea what was written in the contract. My guess is that most of the 961 parts were sourced from the Pacific rim already. Why not pen a deal to consolidate it to one reliable/reputable source ? This way the Norton get the best economies of scale. This remember was written during the SG era when there was a difficulty in finding a steady supply with limited funds.
I understand. But how British is the 961 to begin with? Many dislike the modern Triumphs because they’re made outside the UK.
Norton has always talked up how British the bike are. We know that’s not true.
 

Fast Eddie

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I understand. But how British is the 961 to begin with? Many dislike the modern Triumphs because they’re made outside the UK.
Norton has always talked up how British the bike are. We know that’s not true.
I guess all we can hope for these days is that it’s assembled in U.K. and major components are sourced in U.K.

As someone pointed out who’s been to the new factory… there was no machining operations visible on site… so it seem to be purely an assembly plant.
 

BritTwit

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Will I be the only one surprised if it's still air (okay, 'oil' for the pedantic!) cooled?
Changing to liquid cooling would require a huge redesign effort on the head, cylinders and EFI.
I don't see TVS making that kind of investment on the 961.
Fixing obvious problem areas that are relatively easy to redesign, yes, but nothing extensive.
 
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Changing to liquid cooling would require a huge redesign effort on the head, cylinders and EFI.
I don't see TVS making that kind of investment on the 961.
Fixing obvious problem areas that are relatively easy to redesign, yes, but nothing extensive.
Yes, I can buy/understand that......
But if I was a gambling man (which I'm not, too hard to come by!) I think sooner or later there will be a water cooled 'Commando' out there, I can't honestly see it not happening...
Unless it's battery powered, of course!
 
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