TVS Future

MAK

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Mar 15, 2018
Messages
310
Country flag
July Roadholder,
Norton have made a statement about the indefinite postponement of the Atlas and Ranger models!
They must have used up the last remaining 961 parts for the final 40 bikes.
No interest in rectifying V4 catastrophic faults.
The new CEO is an electric vehicle product specialist.
I think we have just experienced the best of Motorcycing times.
And will keep doing so as long as I am able
 
Joined
May 7, 2005
Messages
5,458
Country flag
Norton have made a statement about the indefinite postponement of the Atlas and Ranger models!

Likely they have to rectify all the design issues, the engine is 1/2 a V4 which has its own issues

They must have used up the last remaining 961 parts for the final 40 bikes.

They have lost exclusivity as the rights were sold before SG Norton went bust.

No interest in rectifying V4 catastrophic faults.

They will rectify them but at SG Norton's expense courtesy of the administrator

The new CEO is an electric vehicle product specialist.

Yes he has electrical experience but has worked for Lotus.

Dr. Ing. Robert Hentschel joined Valmet Automotive from the UK engineering service provider Ricardo in November 2017 and is the Senior Vice President Engineering of the Group. Hentschel started his professional career at EDAG after completing his studies in electrical engineering at the TU Braunschweig and graduating there. After various management positions that Hentschel had for the engineering service provider in Germany, the 1972 in Hannover born manager, moved to Detroit, USA in 2009. There he was responsible for product development and production engineering as COO and member of the Management of EDAG Inc. In early 2010, Hentschel followed the call of Lotus Group and took over for the legendary sports car brand as Director Lotus Engineering. After nearly two years, and almost further two years as Managing Director at Hentschel GmbH followed, British engineering company Ricardo named Robert Hentschel Global Head of Motorcycle & Urban Mobility based in Schwäbisch Gmünd.
 

StuartSF2015

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Dec 3, 2015
Messages
248
Country flag
July Roadholder,
Norton have made a statement about the indefinite postponement of the Atlas and Ranger models!
They must have used up the last remaining 961 parts for the final 40 bikes.
No interest in rectifying V4 catastrophic faults.
The new CEO is an electric vehicle product specialist.
I think we have just experienced the best of Motorcycing times.
And will keep doing so as long as I am able
Top bloke for top job. His EV background will undoubtably see an electric offering in time. After all, Norton has a heritage of innovation and technology adoption.
In the meanwhile, until 2030ish, they will need to build and sell enough bikes to stay in business. The 650 probably has to be completely redesigned from scratch, to avoid similar problems to the V4. I am fairly confident that the current management will do everything they can to avoid the kind of issues associated with the previous management and provide a product that not only looks great but also works straight out the box, is reliable, well supported and appealing to a global market. If that takes them a bit more time, then so be it.
I am attending the Norton Day, dinner and factory tour on 24-25 July and will hopefully find out what the future has in store straight from the ‘horses mouth’ of Nortons’ new management team. I’ll post what I find out in a new thread shortly thereafter. Particularly, about ongoing support for us legacy 961 owners.

162AA177-2BEA-4271-8CBE-4885566833BD.jpeg
 
Joined
Jun 9, 2008
Messages
1,590
Country flag
All 3 of the new guys are well experienced and have the credentials to take Norton forward, there is no doubt about that. Problem they have is designing a Norton for us finicky lot, it could the best bike on the planet but if does not have 'Norton' character it won't sell. It was once rumoured God designed Nortons, therein lies their problem.

Ford opposed the Ranger TM name application and I am not sure about Atlas, but it would have been nice to see one of those with a lighter single or smaller capacity twin engine in it to suit green laners.

The demise of the 961 is sad, it is a good looking bike, could have been re-engined. The V4, as well, I believe that TVS may shy away from the 1200 and use a 1000cc engine of their onw design.
 

BLIGHTYBRIT/SF

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Feb 28, 2016
Messages
1,160
Country flag
All 3 of the new guys are well experienced and have the credentials to take Norton forward, there is no doubt about that. Problem they have is designing a Norton for us finicky lot, it could the best bike on the planet but if does not have 'Norton' character it won't sell. It was once rumoured God designed Nortons, therein lies their problem.

Ford opposed the Ranger TM name application and I am not sure about Atlas, but it would have been nice to see one of those with a lighter single or smaller capacity twin engine in it to suit green laners.

The demise of the 961 is sad, it is a good looking bike, could have been re-engined. The V4, as well, I believe that TVS may shy away from the 1200 and use a 1000cc engine of their onw design.
Well said there
 
Joined
Mar 7, 2020
Messages
2,045
Country flag
. Problem they have is designing a Norton for us finicky lot, it could the best bike on the planet but if does not have 'Norton' character it won't sell. It was once rumoured God designed Nortons, therein lies their problem.

I would expect they will cast their customer demographic a bit wider than that?
 
Joined
Jun 9, 2008
Messages
1,590
Country flag
All the money does not guarantee a bike will sell. TVS look like paupers considering previous owners, it may surprise some that Norton has had richer owners than TVS. I can think of two, still living, that their personal wealth each far exceeds what TVS motor have.
Building a great bike - the big 4 do that every year, to do it with a big spade of character is going to be a challenge.
Demographic is hard, how do you sell to new motorcyclists or entice customers from the major brands, it will not be easy. I suspect that the new 3 will admit that this most probably the hardest challenge they have faced in their professional careers. With BSA, RE and Triumph looking for increased market share, they will no doubt be looking hard at where to start in the market.
As for racing, they need to start in local racing series, week in, week out, and grow a race team before of even thinking about the arduous TT, or other road races. Get it sorted on the track first at a low level and build up from there.
 

BritTwit

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
2,760
Country flag
They need to stay clear of any racing until they have black ink on their ledgers.
Since TVS is a going concern, I'm certain they already know this.
Don't put the cart before the horse.
 

cliffa

VIP MEMBER
Joined
May 26, 2013
Messages
2,349
Country flag
An open question…
If you had X million to launch a new range of bikes would you chance your money or even consider investing in internal combustion technology which is rapidly being outlawed through very tough legislation. All of the big manufactures MUST be already considering or developing electric bikes, so surely Norton must also think very carefully before creating a range of bikes which have limited life, market or appeal to a public which have no memory of Norton’s history or brand loyalty to the marque.
 
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Messages
643
Country flag
Personally, I think they should forget trying to compete with the superbikes and create their own Atlas/Ranger, update the commando with a liquid cooled version so it can meet euro 5 and work on an electric version of all of the above.
 
Joined
Jun 9, 2008
Messages
1,590
Country flag
And mouse mats, calendars and cup coasters, and even the belt buckle they they have registered. Mind you they'll look real stupid to do this before producing a bike.

As above, although they can't use Ranger - Ford have objected, those bikes would have been ideal with a reliable lump in them, or did they find too many issues in those models as well. The 961 sold well. always more demand than bikes made, looks good so why not a quick re-engine job.
 
Joined
May 19, 2021
Messages
72
Country flag
Something that has been getting under my skin is there appears to be a small group of V4ss owners hell bent on trying to destroy the reputation of a company that is not linked to the Garner era and trying to shame them into sorting out issues with bikes they didn't build. From what I gather TVS have already committed themselves to rectifying the issues even though they have no legal or moral obligation to do so.
 

Fast Eddie

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Oct 4, 2013
Messages
15,931
Country flag
Something that has been getting under my skin is there appears to be a small group of V4ss owners hell bent on trying to destroy the reputation of a company that is not linked to the Garner era and trying to shame them into sorting out issues with bikes they didn't build. From what I gather TVS have already committed themselves to rectifying the issues even though they have no legal or moral obligation to do so.
It might not be ‘fair‘ of them or ‘correct’… but when you’ve dropped £50k on a bike you’re then told not to even ride, it’s gonna provide ‘motivation’ to look for someone to blame and someone to pay !!
 

StuartSF2015

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Dec 3, 2015
Messages
248
Country flag

cut and paste from Nortons FB Page for your information and consideration on the direction of TVS Norton product development……​

Norton Motorcycles supports student electric motorcycle research with WMG, University of Warwick​

Norton Motorcycles engineers have supported students at WMG, University of Warwick to develop a TT capable electric racing motorcycle, named ‘Frontier’
This includes donating a high performance bike frame and data to students undertaking research into study of electric motorcycles at WMG, University of Warwick
Students adapted the sports bike platform to run a specially developed electric powertrain rated with a power output of 160kW/201bhp and 400Nm torque
Immersion-cooled 16kWh battery pack is the first of its kind for application on a motorcycle, with battery cases manufactured using advanced laser-welding technology to deliver structural integrity and maximise reliability and repeatability.
The Norton Motorcycle Co Ltd is proud to support students at the University of Warwick who are researching the future of electric racing motorcycles. The group of students undertaking the project are aided by the donation of a sports bike frame by Norton Motorcycles, which has been adapted by the student team to be fitted with an electric powertrain, with batteries and control systems designed in-house.
The group of 13 students at WMG, University of Warwick – made up of cross-functional team from first- to final-year degree students, with the support of some EngD students – are joined by a selection of leading academics, engineers and researchers representing WMG, at the University. On-campus research has been reinforced with input, support, mentoring and technical guidance from Norton’s own designers and engineers, further to the supply of the frame.
The finished electric racing bike next to a model of the Norton Motorcycles frame it is built on. The full team from left to right are: Robert Driver – Battery Testing & Characterisation Engineer, David Cooper – Precision Engineer at WMG, Professor Dave Greenwood - CEO of WMG High Value Manufacturing Catapult, Tom Weeden – the professional rider for the team, Lee-Rose Jordan – Project Manager, Student Projects at WMG, Malcolm Swain – Lead Engineer a WMG, Martin Neczaj – Chief Chassis Engineer at Norton Motorcycles, James Grohmann –Lead Design Engineer (Student), Aman Surana – Chief Engineer of Warwick Moto team (Student)
The research team supported by WMG Centre High Value Manufacturing Catapult have developed an electric motorcycle powertrain, using a high performance sports model as a platform. The electric powertrain designed to work in the Norton frame is rated with a power output of 160kW or 201bhp, and delivering 400Nm of torque from a standing start. The acceleration and speed characteristics of the electric bike in motion roughly translate into a combustion-engine equivalent of around 900cc to 1,000cc – only slightly less than Norton’s own petrol powertrain, they have called the bike Frontier.
The electric motor draws power from an immersion-cooled battery pack that has been designed and tested by the students and is the first of its kind for application in an electric motorcycle. The battery with a capacity of 16 kWh is designed to last longer with the application of robust thermal management strategies, while also allowing for larger short term power peaks required by a racing motorbike.
In addition, the cooling system will enable the team to operate at a more efficient temperature range by optimising the starting temperature of the dielectric fluid prior to a race or testing, based on the requirements of the track.
The battery can be recharged with the common CHAdeMO connector, facilitating fast charging where available and allowing for a full charge of the battery in around an hour (up to 80% from empty in just 32 minutes). These impressive figures have supported the testing and development of the electric bike prototype, with research teams able to maximise riding time on the track thanks to reduced charging times, allowing for further track-side development and optimisation with the help of a fully instrumented bike.
The battery case was manufactured using laser welding techniques developed at WMG, The University of Warwick, a manufacturing process that is easily repeatable for potential serial production, while also incorporating process-control to maximise reliability and strength of the joints.
Students have been able to craft a functioning electric motorcycle based on the Norton frame in just seven months. The project began in October 2020 with the donation of the frame and associated parts, with students working hard to realise their goal alongside studying for their degrees. The bike has undergone significant testing including much computer-based validation such as CFD of battery cooling, modelling around thermal management, along with physical testing of cells and modules – whilst constantly reviewing engineering decisions to minimise and mitigate the risk of failure.
Aman Surana, Chief Engineer of the Warwick Moto team, said:
“Ever since we started the Warwick Moto project, the overall goal has always been around learning and enhancing our engineering experience. We have gained practical experience in our research that is required to deliver a real-world project, along with balancing considerations such as tight budgets and deadlines, while learning logistics and everything around delivering an industry project. This has made us all the more proud with the way the Frontier looks.
“To have access to Norton’s engineering team, years of experience and data has been a great resource, integral to the design of the bike. Combining the motorcycling knowledge from Norton, with the leading research at WMG, University of Warwick has been a fantastic learning opportunity for all students involved. We’re very excited to see what this collaboration leads to.”
Dr Robert Hentschel, CEO of Norton Motorcycles, said:
“We are thrilled to be able to support the engineers of the future, who are developing tomorrow’s technology today on the basis of a Norton frame. Our support by means of donation of the frame is just the beginning. Norton’s team of designers and engineers have been very interested to observe how this project is taking shape, supporting the student team wherever possible with advice and guidance.
Follow the Warwick Moto team’s journey:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/warwick.moto/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/warwickmotoracing/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/warwick-moto/
 
Joined
May 7, 2005
Messages
5,458
Country flag
The problem all these manufacturers are going to have is how do you get your electric bike unique. Once the petrol engine and its different configurations, piston layouts, crank degrees, balancer shafts, cams, gears, gearing etc go and you all end with a twist and go, all the power from no revs, what do you end up with. The same bike.
 
Joined
May 19, 2021
Messages
72
Country flag
It might not be ‘fair‘ of them or ‘correct’… but when you’ve dropped £50k on a bike you’re then told not to even ride, it’s gonna provide ‘motivation’ to look for someone to blame and someone to pay !!
Yeah I get that but blame those responsible though. Word is TVS are looking at a direct swap for Gen2 V4ss. What they can't seem to grasp is that they are under no obligation to do anything at all, its entirely down to goodwill.
 
Top