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TRIUMPH T 120 TT / T 120 C .

Discussion in 'Triumph (Classic)' started by Matt Spencer, Sep 12, 2012.

  1. Matt Spencer

    Matt Spencer

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2010
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    Darn Stickey Throttle . :x

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  2. Matt Spencer

    Matt Spencer

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2010
  3. beng

    beng

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2011
    Well it is a good thing you put that last photo up, it maybe gave you a chance of having one photo of a t120tt/c to match the title of your latest jibberish thread.....
     
  4. Snorton74

    Snorton74

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2012
     
  5. Matt Spencer

    Matt Spencer

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2010
    In this case ' R ' is ' Road U.S. Market ' . :!:

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    We got the ' R 's in N.Z. , not the pommy ones .


    However ' C ' is ' competition U.S. Market ' . not crazy . :p :|

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    If you take 45 minutes to ensure the contact breaker is exactly set , you might find the bl :shock: dy thing GOES PROPERLY .

    MODEL DESIGNATIONS:
    1961 Triumph Bonneville T120/C.................... Scrambler
    1961 Triumph Bonneville T120/R.................... Roadster

    ENGINE:
    Engine type....................................... OHV vertical twin
    Horsepower at RPM............................ 46 BHP @ 6,500 rpm
    Bore................................................ 71mm / 2.79"
    Stroke............................................. 82mm / 3.23"
    Displacement.................................... 649cc / 40 cu. in.
    Compression Ratio............................. 8.5:1
    Valve Clearance (cold):
    Inlet................................................ 0.05mm / 0.002"
    Exhaust............................................ 0.10mm / 0.004"
    Valve Timing:
    Inlet Valve Opens.............................. 34 degrees BTDC
    Inlet Valve Closes.............................. 55 degrees BTDC
    Exhaust Valve Opens.......................... 48 degrees BTDC
    Exhaust Valve Closes.......................... 27 degrees B
     
  6. Matt Spencer

    Matt Spencer

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2010
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    Darn Units .

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    64 T120 / C [​IMG]

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    someone recons 65 was the last year for the ' C ' , were minor variations on C & T , east to west Coast .

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  7. internetannoyance

    internetannoyance

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2012
    Nice bikes, good pictures.

    I have a few TT's and T120Cs, including a Preunit duplex framed 1960 T120C, but as far as 65 being the last, thats not true...

    I have a 1966 T120C, they made 211 of the T120Cs in the first few months of production for the 66 year, and being that they started the next years production late in the previous year, their lies the frequent confusion.
    But after those 211 bikes, they switched to the T1200TT designations for the rest of 1966 and all of 1967 (I have 2 1967 TTs as well awaiting restoration)

    In years past,, there has been several 1966 T120Cs sold at Las Vegas mid America auction, they seem to go for about $18,000 USD on average.
    thats my hope for mine,, while i have many projects, this one is going to pay for my new shop building. I can build my own shop easily enough,, but with local govt being what it is,,the permit process is hell, Here in Clackistan county (Clackastanis) right next to the peoples republic of Multnomah county.
    So,, i can build bikes better than deal with code violations and stop work orders and engineering reports, so im reluctantly hiring the job out.

    So, I bought all the bits and pieces to finish my restoration last year, awaiting the time to get it done, however looks like this winter will be the time and place to get it done. Ive owned the bike for 15 years, just know getting around to restoring it.

    One of my keepers is a 1965 T120C that im restoring in East Coast US street tracker form, there was a difference between east coast and west coast models and some sold east coast had waist high pipes on either side and retained the lighting,. David Gaylin does and excellent job discussing these extremely rare compy model variants, See his Triumph restoration guide, the best out there, The new edition is now availible, I highly recomend it,. You can buy direct from David right off ebay, and he will autograph it for you,. prompt shipping too, Tell him the internet annoyance sent you., Good guy and one of the most knowledgable out there on Triumphs. He has been invaluable as a resource to me. Jim Hiddleston as well is one of the foremost experts at these, but these days he tends to focus in more on the preunit triumphs.


    thanks for posting this cool stuff
     
  8. willh

    willh

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2010
    Aldana on a Norton
     
  9. Matt Spencer

    Matt Spencer

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2010
  10. Matt Spencer

    Matt Spencer

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2010
  11. internetannoyance

    internetannoyance

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2012
    ===================================================================

    Nah, its a 1967, and nice bike, but a shame its not as correct as it should, Its one thing if you build one to personal taste, its quite another to try and peddle something as restored when its clearly incorrect.
    A) Missing the correct folding footpegs (they fetch a small fortune for a pair these days, saw some recently sell for $400 o feebay)
    B) WRONG WRONG tank and side cover decals, factory T120C and T120TT NEVER came with those stickers, although widely availible, the factory never used them, should be the small "Bonneville 120" cursive script
    C) has the early style rear wheel, not correct for a 67
    D) LOOKS like might be wrong speedo and brake & clutch levers but cant be certain in the pictures
    E) missing correct oil tank transfers
    F) Many TTs if not all, left the factory WITH the large twin Air cleaner assy, this has shorty velocity stacks
    G)It has what appears to be the later style tach drive, and a repop tach drive cable missing the metal shielding, however id have to verify, but I dont think it should be a tach fitted, and the grey face instrument doenst look right, would have to check parts books on all the numbers.
    H) Sellers claims never raced,, so why is there number plates on it? all image?
    I) Serial number indicates early in 67 production run and thus should be the Aubergrine Purple and Gold paint scheme, although admittedly, i think this later 67 color scheme is far more attractive. If this were a keeper id keep the paint, but to be correct for resale should be the correct color and layout.

    Seller COULD have built something useful,,, as some east coast models were reconfigured with a small C model headlight and tail light and sold as street legal,

    the problem with such a machine is its not legal to ride on the road, and why have just a display bike unless you can ride it?
     
  12. Time Warp

    Time Warp .......back to the 70's. VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2012
    A good reason to have two of something.
    There seems to have been a lot of TT's for sale over the last six months or so on eBay.

    http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c345/ ... G_0068.jpg
     
  13. Matt Spencer

    Matt Spencer

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2010
  14. Mark

    Mark

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2006
    Hey!
    This picture is my desktop background. :lol:
     
  15. internetannoyance

    internetannoyance

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2012
    Thats a cool autographed picture of Evel,, I dont know where you come up with this stuff but it sure is cool Mr Spencer.

    If you ever get over here (soon I hope) Id be pleased to introduce you to the world famous "Sandy Bandit" Cliff Mahjor, Uncle Cliff is an amazing guy, Close friends with Bud Ekins And used to share a house with him and his wife, Apparently they werent big on cooking so Cliff prepared all the meals while living there. At some point in the 50s, Cliff went to work for the Joey Chitwood motorcycle show. Someone quit or was sick, Cliff made some claims about being able to do the stunts better,.and they put him to the test. One was riding wheelies around the entire race track. He did, I have a picture here of Cliff wheelying a matchless G80. You can see the front wheel is loose and the fork caps not tightened down.
    Cliff would tell you,, "Who cares?, it aint gonna touch the ground anyway." Anyrate, Cliff taught Evel many of his stunts and tricks. Showed him how to ride thru walls of fire. there IS pictures of all this too. But you should come visit and meet the legend in person. Ol' Cliffy aint getttin' any younger and wont be around forever. His storys are amazing, some of them actually true.

    This fall I attended our local NW Old timers banquet where we get together and swap lies and bench race. I had the pleasure of sitting next to Uncle Cliff (served him carrot cake I did) and next to us was Eldon Wright, who was the western US Triumph sales/dealers rep. Eldon won a trophy from the Old timers assoc for his life time contribution to the NW motorycle scene. I have pictures i need to post of this, Although I knew of him for years, I Didnt know him well and wish I had sat down with him years back when his memory was better. I would love to have tape recorded his storys and memorys, the storys He could tell. These days Eldon is still getting around but very aged.

    Ive known Cliffy well for decades and have kept a journal of many of his storys. Some of them true. One of the best is the day at the annual Triumph dealers meeting in Long Beach (Queen Mary?) where during the annual meeting Cliff stood up with a beer in his hand, and cussed out senior Triumph mgmt, told them they were idiots and "Didn't know what the F**K they were doing" and "If they would just run things like Suzuki, all us Triumph dealers would die fat dumb and happy". Edward Turner was there and not amused. Everyone was surprised ET didnt blow his primary gasket, Everyone was even more surprised that Cliff retained his dealership. This is one of Cliffys storys that I verified. Ask Bob Raber of San Jose's "Rabers parts mart" as Bob was there, heard the whole thing and was prepared to duck under his table.
     
  16. internetannoyance

    internetannoyance

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2012
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    Damn Nabbitt,,, i gots to get the hang of this picture posting thing soon. I have another pictue here of Gene Romero you guys might like.

    Its from about 2-3 years ago. Most years I attend the Clubmans Show in San Jose every spring. Epic show, not to be missed. So each year, on the same weekend a well known business man who has a passion for bikes and racing puts on a indoor flat track race there at the same fairgrounds. (I believe he also bank rolls Romeros flat track race series) So, theres also a banquet on the friday nights and theres a wealth of famous racers and personalities who attend.
    So, several friends of mine were there and one guy was pointing out some of the more well known, and there was posters of legends of racing, and many of these guys pictures were on the posters. I went around and got many of the pictures autographed, (the founder of the BUB speed meet and their land speed racer and the rider were there too,, i got pictures of that as well as autographs).

    So, there was Mr Romero. Standing at the doorway to the fairground building where the banquet is held. I walked up, he was smoking and drinking beer. I noticed something was odd,, the thing was there was a matronly security guard lady there giving him grief. He was not amused with her. It was kinda tense and here comes my dumb A** butting in.

    "Excuse me Mr Romero,, can i get your autograph? and a picture with you?"

    Clearly she didnt know who she was harrassing, Kinda like those Chuck Norris Quips,, "Chuck Norris rides motorcycles so fast the worlds rotation matches his speed" or "Chuck Norris will hit you so hard your ancestors will feel it". So she clearly had no idea. It was Gene F*#K'ing Romero Dammit,, WTF?

    So Mr Romero was standing in the doorway, one foot on one side of the line with his cigarette on the outside, and the other foot on the inside with that hand holding his beer., You see he wasnt allowed to leave the building with the beer and wasnt allowed to smoke inside.
    So I show up and disturb the standoff..

    So, he eyes me,,Replys, "Sure buddy" and My pal Hal takes our picture,, then,, Gene Romero starts cursing,, "Get back here and take another one",, he explained that the cigarette and beer in his hands when we took the picture would have him in trouble with sponsors, Insisted I never show anyone that picture, and we retook the picture with one arm behind his back with his ciggy and beer in that hand, and the other arm around my shoulder and both of us have big cheesy grins. All the while the security rent-a-cop giving us the stink eye.
    we also took pix of my pal Hal Record with Gene as well but my story is much more interesting. I still honor his request but I can post the staged second picture. Im very proud of it.
     
  17. Matt Spencer

    Matt Spencer

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2010
  18. Matt Spencer

    Matt Spencer

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2010
  19. beng

    beng

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2011
    There are probably more TT specials now than were built originally. Seeing what I have seen, I would be very wary of buying any Triumph TT special that has been "restored" in the United States.

    60s Triumphs have been a big collectors item in the USA for decades now, there was an awful lot of Triumphs sold here back then, probably most of them, and there has been a lot of Triumph collectors here for decades also. Of course they all have to have a TT special to be a part of the "me too" club.

    For a while I was a personal friend of a very well regarded Triumph collector/restorer here, we will call him "Mr. X" . He wanted a TT special and at first he was simply going to stamp "TT" onto the cases of a regular Bonneville by the serial number! I told him that someday the factory records would be easily accessed that showed which serial numbers were real TT Specials, and that sort of took the wind out of his sail, but in retrospect I wish he had done just that as it would have created positive proof of the forging that goes on in the classic motorcycle world.

    He did end up with two Triumph TT/C Bonneville bikes though in a roundabout way. I found a real set of 67' TT cases in a hoard of parts on a farm and put him onto them, and I also came up with a set of 65' T120C cases which were in a Trackmaster dirt-track bike I bought, which he bought from me. Mr. X next found two frames that matched the year of the cases, and proceeded to weld up and re-stamp the serial numbers on them to match, then he went about building the two bikes up from bits and pieces laying around. He used fence-post clamps to hold the exhaust pipes up on both bikes.

    Viola! Two rare collectible Triumphs! He never stopped to think that if someone somewhere else had the rolling chassis to his two engines that two other Triumphs might be running around with serial numbers identical to his, potentially creating four competition Triumphs where there were only two before, but those pursuing membership into the "me too" club seldom think of such things.

    I also am well acquainted with a known restorer a few hundred miles from me who was bragging about how he could change the numbers on aluminum motorcycle parts so well it could not be told from factory marks.

    The two bodged Competition Triumphs above were put together 20-25 years ago, how many more have been put together this way by "me too" club members?

    In the last three decades in the USA thousands of classic British bikes have been bought, sold and traded before being put through the same restoration mill of bead-blasting everything, plastic coating everything, re-plating everything, then clear-coating everything. A lot of the bikes subjected to this were even pretty decent originals which the owner wanted to make "concours".

    Having seen all this first hand, the USA is the last place I would source a restored classic bike, especially if I could not talk to someone who owned it back in the 50s or 60s.
     
  20. Rohan

    Rohan

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2010
    It is fairly well recorded that in earlier years some of the Indian, and HD, etc, race guys had race bikes with the same serial numbers.
    This was for all sorts of reasons, but just having another bike readily available if something went wrong with the first avoided all sorts of 'administrative' problems.
    Some apparently has as many as 6 of the same bike.
    There is no reason to think that this practice ever stopped ?
     

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