Tri Spark woes

I have an 74' 850. I am on my 2nd unit. I was on the freeway and it started to crap out, then run fine then crap out again and then it just quit. Got towed home and did some tests. This is what I did.

1. Checked for power to the unit on both sides of the connectors going to it. Got power.
2. Checked both coils for ohms. Got 2.0 ohms on each coil.
3. Did the self test by pushing the test button and then turning on the key. It started to spark like crazy for the 10 seconds like it is supposed to.
4. With the power still on I rotated the engine but the LED did not light at all.
5. I pulled the unit to check the magnets. All ok

I have resister plugs with stock 6v coils
What should I check next?

Guido said:

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What should I check next?

Click to expand...

The warranty

Matt at CNW said he would replace it for the second time. I was just hoping there was something else I should look for.
Didn't want to keep asking Matt for replacements.
Is there a better unit I should be looking at?

Guido said:

I have an 74' 850. I am on my 2nd unit. I was on the freeway and it started to crap out, then run fine then crap out again and then it just quit. Got towed home and did some tests. This is what I did.

1. Checked for power to the unit on both sides of the connectors going to it. Got power.
2. Checked both coils for ohms. Got 2.0 ohms on each coil.
3. Did the self test by pushing the test button and then turning on the key. It started to spark like crazy for the 10 seconds like it is supposed to.
4. With the power still on I rotated the engine but the LED did not light at all.
5. I pulled the unit to check the magnets. All ok

I have resister plugs with stock 6v coils
What should I check next?

Click to expand...

Since the first test passes and the second test fails, one of these is it:
1) Rotor is not turning
2) Magnets demagnetized
3) Unit is bad.

With the unit removed turn the engine and make sure the Tri-Spark rotor turns. With it removed, connect the ground and use a small magnet passed over the back of the unit. If the LED lights, the magnets have gone.

Guido said:

Matt at CNW said he would replace it for the second time. I was just hoping there was something else I should look for.
Didn't want to keep asking Matt for replacements.
Is there a better unit I should be looking at?

Click to expand...

I don't know of a better running unit but there are a few more reliable units.
I might go for a trade-in toward one of the new remote mounted tri-sparks.

Keep an eye on your charging voltage. High battery voltage can kill any ignition.

After 3 failures i am over the failspark. Good luck but i would look at a remote unit as comstock suggests

Guido said:

Matt at CNW said he would replace it for the second time. I was just hoping there was something else I should look for.
Didn't want to keep asking Matt for replacements.
Is there a better unit I should be looking at?

Click to expand...

Oh, not another one! I have about 100 miles on my Tri-spark. Last ride, the bike started right up when leaving the destination--then it just died. I was able to get it started again and nurse it home. On the freeway, it sputtered like it was a fuel issue but was able to nurse it home. Haven't dug into it yet.

~998cc

marshg246 said:

Since the first test passes and the second test fails, one of these is it:
1) Rotor is not turning
2) Magnets demagnetized
3) Unit is bad.

With the unit removed turn the engine and make sure the Tri-Spark rotor turns. With it removed, connect the ground and use a small magnet passed over the back of the unit. If the LED lights, the magnets have gone.

Click to expand...

The rotor turns and the magnets will hold a small wrench to it.
Will have to try passing a magnet behind the unit tomorrow. I'm opting for #3, a bad unit

The ‘problem’ with this Tri Spark issue is that some people have had them fitted for years without failure, some have multiple failures on the same bike.

Comnoz, you’re an ‘outlier’ in this as you put your bike through stresses most of us don’t. But even within the representative riders, we see this very apposing level of reliability.

Whilst heat in the timing cover might be an issue to some (again, Comnoz is an outlier riding 4,000 miles across deserts in summer for example), but for the vast majority, timing cover heat is gonna be fairly constant for those with both good and bad results. So it cannot be the main failure mode.

So, the failure mode has to be something variable. I can only think of two possibilities for this variability:

1) Variability in manufacture.

2) Variability in users machines causing other root causes.


Option 1 is of course a distinct possibility. But it does not explain why some people suffer multiple failures on the same machine. And we see this far too often for it to be coincidence I suggest.

So option 2 must be an issue for some. Charging spikes, issues with too much or too little resistance in HT circuits, faulty rectifier units, etc, etc, etc.

It seems to me that the root cause of the Tri Spark reliability’s issues some have must be elsewhere within their electrical system on their machines.

This doesn’t get Tri Spark off the hook however, I suggest they should be looking at these failures more closely and design their units to be more able to withstand such variable issues.

Whilst I applaud their after sales support, would be a whole heap better if it were unnecessary....
Sitting dead at the roadside* it's cold comfort knowing a new unit will be with you free of charge in three weeks time! But.. you pays yer money.. you takes yer choice! Trouble is they're a bit pricey to consider carrying a spare.
* First unit failed at 500 miles, second still going strong...

You’re reinforcing my point there Estuaryboy, with only 500 miles on it, and in the U.K., it is hard to imagine excessive heat was your root cause...

EstuaryBoy said:

Trouble is they're a bit pricey to consider carrying a spare.

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Email Steve Kelly he'll give you a discount code for a spare.

First choice for reliability would be a set of points
Second choice Lucas Rita (40 + years and still going strong)
But with any electronic system I think an additional regulator built into the circuit to give the ignition a 12v supply may be the answer to some of the trispark failures?
Elektronic saches is the same spec as trispark without the drama (as far as I know?)

baz said:

I think an additional regulator built into the circuit to give the ignition a 12v supply may be the answer to some of the trispark failures?

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As soon as you do that and guarantee 12V to the EI then the Boyer over advanced issue drops off the problem list, Digital Boyer then gives you the idle stabilisation.

I agree with Fast Ed's point #2 - there is something within the specific bikes that is causing the TS failures. Also, as he said, that doesn't totally excuse TS from doing more research into what, exactly is the issue - voltage spikes, high voltage, low voltage, whatever. I don't think it's a heat issue - if it was, surely my TS, installed in '08 and working perfectly since then in Mexico - not known for being cold - would have crapped out long ago.

I also agree with Baz that the most reliable ignition system for a Norton Commando is the one that came on the bike - points/AAU.

baz said:

Second choice Lucas Rita (40 + years and still going strong)

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Absolutely, Rita takes some beating for long term reliability.

Personally, I’ve never had one fail.

But then again, 5 Tri Sparks and I’ve never one fail either !

In e mails i had wit steve kelly in early feb. he promised me any reliability issues have been resolved . I was asking hem about the fire box pro and insisted he NOT try to sell me on another classic twin because of my 3 failures but he tried anyway. As good as it works WHEN it works i am no longer a player .

Having spent over 45 years in high voltage electronic, mostly radar which in my field is mostly high voltage pulse's. Any one in electronics should easily agree it is ALWAYS heat failure.
The $54 question is what is the item that failed, and what is the cause-source of the heat. Testing, analysis, diagnosis are the true metal of design engineer and the support staff doing the detective work to find the real cause and cure to the original marginal design. The variations in application in a particular bike should be part of the analysis otherwise you are only trouble shooting by hand grenade.
Power source variations, different coils, different low and high voltage wiring routing, different high voltage load**, variables in thermal environment need to be determined. The final product design hopefully will rise above the most difficult application environment.
Consumer as the beta test environment is poor marketing style.

Fast Eddie said:

Absolutely, Rita takes some beating for long term reliability.

Personally, I’ve never had one fail.

But then again, 5 Tri Sparks and I’ve never one fail either !

Click to expand...

I'll ask you in 40 years time how your trispark is performing Eddie!! cheers

baz said:

I'll ask you in 40 years time how your trispark is performing Eddie!! cheers

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If you’re looking for someone to place a bet with on that it ain’t me Baz !