The birth of a Seeley Norton

Whilst I was look for a way to post pictures on another thread I realised I had enough pics to pad out a build thread, so here goes.

It all started in 2016 when I bought a Seeley rolling chassis at the Stafford Classic Bike Show.



I was going through some old photos on the laptop when I found these that I had took at the Classic show in 2013, It is obviously the frame I bought in 2016 but what worried me was the Spewzuki engine for sale by the same vendor.

When you look at the frame you can see there are some brackets at the back of the rear loop that look like they are for mounting expansion chambers. I was then wondering if the frame was purpose built for the little 2 stroke.






Anyway, fast forward to 2018.

I had been wanting to buy or build a 500 Manx but in between buying the Seeley and not doing anything with it, I came across a T160 that had been imported from the States.



I had been a member of the TR3OC for a couple of years and it made sense to actually own a Trident, I had always fancied one but could never afford one. That year the Beezumph team were trying to get 160 T160s at the rally and they asked me to take mine. I didn't like the idea of taking it as it was and decided to tart it up, but as usual I went a bit further than that and it ended up at the Beezumph looking like this.




I found that sign in the field after they had all took their bikes back, I didn't win owt.

Anyway the reason for that story is when I got to ride the T160, I didn't like it, Slow, heavy, ponderous and didn't want to stop. I then came across an advert where a guy was selling a Steve Maney motor with a load of bits of a Commando and we came to a deal where I got his Commando stuff and he got my T160.

I was happy, I hope he was happy, and then the pain began.

The motor was new but incomplete, I got the Maney cases, 920 barrels, stage 3 head, crank, cam, Carrillo rods and JE pistons.





The guy I got the engine off was building a bullet proof road bike and had the cases machined to accept a chain case, not what I wanted, but beggers and all that. But worse was he told me that the pistons with the bike were low comp and he had the crank re-balanced to the road balance factor, so now I am looking at buying pistons and a crank re-balance, then I had one of those ideas that seem like a really good idea at the time.

I have a Mk1a 820 Commando that I was using for track days and when I rebuilt that I fitted Jim Schmidt's rods and pistons, I guess most of you here know Jim and how good he is to work with. As the Maney motor was going to be solidly mounted I liked the idea of having those rods in it. I figured if I re-sleeved the barrels on the 820 to 920, I could use the rods and piston out of the Maney motor and Jims rods in the Maney motor and then I would only need to buy pistons to suit the rods. As the Commando would go back on the road and still had its isolastics, the extra weight of the rods and low comp pistons wouldn't matter, also money was saved by going down this route and my road bike is now a 920. Win win.

Anyway, when I built the motor, there was no way those pistons were low comp so now I have a fairly rapid road bike.

I ordered pistons, a stage two cam, followers and pushrods from Jim, had the crank dynamically balanced and built the Maney motor.

I was surprised how much material was removed from the crank for dynamic balance.



I changed that cam chain for one from Andy the chain man (who has retired now, but has left his business with a younger chap)



I didn't like how the oil pump sits with the drive gear, but can't do anything about it.

The time came to mock the motor in the frame.





And it was bloody cold outside.



But somehow when the goodies arrive things feel warmer.



I never liked the ignition being controlled by a cam chain and running at half engine speed so i decided to use an Ignitech control box and made a mount to fit around the case where it had been machined to accept the chaincase, Jiri Krejzl at Ignitech supplied a Sparker DCCDIP1 race module and a IP6 pick-up, Ignitech are good to deal with and the hardware is the puppies privates.

When I was happy with the design, I machined the slots and anodised the mount black. The rotor is bonded and bolted to the back of the drive pulley.




When doing a build like this I tend to hop about a bit to make best use of the time, I made the rear calliper hanger from 1/2" alloy, don't know why it looks like a floppy eared dog with its mouth open.



Anodised and the bearing fitted.



The clutch is from Bob Newby, nice bit of kit, and lighter than the Commando one.



The way to get the chain run to miss the tire in a Seeley with a 130 tire is to space the gearbox over, but then the belt doesn't line up so you then need to machine the clutch centre so it slides further on the output shaft to bring it back in line with the front pulley. TTI do an off set front drive sprocket and as luck would have it this was enough for my drive chain to line up, I say as luck would have it because I didn't know about having to offset the gearbox before I bought the Newby belt drive, and there wasn't enough meat in the clutch centre to machine it to slide further on the shaft.

The front end coming together, hindsight would have been useful here, the forks were bought from CR suspension and Lazlow is another real nice guy to work with. They are his GP35 forks.



After I was happy with the fit of the calliper mounts:



I milled some of the thickness in the middle away and anodised them.



The rear wheel that came with the frame turned out to be a Seeley hub, I started to make a Maney style cushdrive to give the gearbox an easier time but when I did a trial fit a stud pulled out and I decided the hub wouldn't be up to the power of the motor so this got turned into the ignition pickup mount.

If anyone decides it would be a good idea to start a build like this, the amount of work involved is immense, I over heard the wife telling a friend that it was like being single again whilst i was building this. If you cannot make all these little bits your self then you will need very deep pockets, and an understanding partner.

Nice work and great pics. Keep 'em coming

Lovely build. I've used Ignitech boxes on Yamaha race bikes and been very happy with them. Should work a treat on the Norton.

Ken

Thanks Danno.

I have just had a look at that pic of the chain run and it is dated the 6th March, when I decided to build the bike , I also started entering it in events, The Endurance Legends track weekend was the first one and was on the 11th May, I made it but more of that later.

As time went on and it was fast becoming obvious there probably wasn't enough of it, time that is, I took less pics but there are a few more.

This old church sign caused a few problems, it was a lot stronger than it looked and i ripped my vice off the bench when i bent it.



But perseverance turned it into this.



I bought a bank of 36mm Mkll Amals off a GSX1100 off Ebay, these turned out to be 34mm carbs that had been bored out, I didn't have a problem with that but when I went to buy some velocity stacks for them I realised that there wasn't enough meat in the stack to bore them to fit, the 2000 series carbs that came in 36mm had a different size mount and so I couldn't use them either, this pic was taken on the 25 April, time is running out.



That became these.



And then anodised, varied results with the colour with these home anodising kits.

lcrken said:

Lovely build. I've used Ignitech boxes on Yamaha race bikes and been very happy with them. Should work a treat on the Norton.

Ken

Click to expand...

It did, but !!!!

A pre arranged trip to see Gomez in Glasgow buggered the weekend of the 28th April but having said that if you ever want to see a band at their best then this is the place to see them.



Back on the job, because the Seeley hub wasn't suitable, I fetched a Minnovation Racing hub, cush drive and disc from Martin at Minnovation, I cannot tell you all how helpful Martin has been during this, his help has been above and beyond and much appreciated.

When i tried to order spokes from Hagons it quickly became obvious that due to me not know what length spokes I needed it would be best to send the hub and rim to them to build but there wasn't time. As luck would have it, i found one side of the Seeley hub is the same diameter as the Triumph copy Minnovation make, so I laced the wheel with what i had as a proof of concept, and when I was happy they were the right length, I could order the spokes and build the wheel.



4th May, 7 days to Donnington. The rear master cylinder arrived and was duly fitted.



Now, time to make an oil tank, meet my new oil tank. Pic dated 6th May.



Bent to shape and a filler welded in.

Tried for fit in the frame and it didn't.




Shape changed and a few more bits welded in.




Now it gets baffling.



Sides welded on.



And polished. 7th May.

More fantastic stuff. I love home brew and yours is better than store-bought.

There is even clearance for the tire at full suspension travel, lucky!!!!.



I also had to cut the bottom of the tank out because the taps were hitting the stacks so I cut a 6" square out and plated it, I then welded a central boss in and fitted a single tap. No pics, no time

The bike fired up for the first time on Thursday the 10th of May, the tires for it arrived the same morning, this was a bit of luck as it happens, I decided that because i didn't know the age of the rear tire and the tire on the front was a rear, to buy some Continental road attack CR tires, plus the tire on the bike was a 135/70/18 and the Conti was a 130/80/18 I though great, 5mm narrower. I rang the tire guy that was going to be at Donnington and although he would have the tires and it was free fitting at the track, i had him send them to me at home, good job too, a 130/80 is at its widest about 15mm further out which meant although it is 5mm narrower its 15mm closer to the narrow bit of the swing arm, it wouldn't go in far enough for the chain to fit.

If that had happened at the track, there is no way I would have been able to put another link in the chain.

I don't think the long wheel base was helping the turn in.

07:00 11th of May, the fairing wouldn't fit so I welded a bracket up to take a Manx fly screen. As I was loading the van and coupling the caravan for the trip to Donnington, the post arrived with an assortment of jets for the carbs which would have to wait until we got to Donnington.

After we had set up camp at Donnington I changed the jets from 240 to 260 and did a bit of tidying up on the bike and went to the pub.

Next morning my 1st session was 09:30 and as they gave the last call I tried to fire it up, it wouldn't, bugger.

I had also made my own rollers to start it and I hadn't realised the battery was marginal. Anyway the guy from Solo starters was at the track entrance so i pushed it to him and it fired straight up and it was out onto the track.

20 mins later i was back in the tent and lifting the forks an inch through the yolks (trees) it was running wide down Craner but well pleased considering the bikes birth.

Next session it started to miss fire after 3 laps and i pulled in, I figured it was plugs so went and bought some and the bike fired up at the van and i thought that was fixed. Also lifted the forks another 1/4".

Next session it managed 4 laps before the misfire started again but as i was coming round to come in it cleared, obviously not the plugs then. I finished the session and when i cut the ignition i got a shock off it. It turned out to be a bracket under the tank that rested against a rubber, was bouncing enough to touch the coil terminals, there was a good 3/8" clearance and i couldn't push the tank onto it, but when the bike was running it was touching, I just bent the bracket out of the way and no more misfire.

Lifted the forks another 3/8", I think they are about right now.

Last session it rained and i couldn't be bothered to go out, off to the pub then

Next day our sessions were after the Endurance race so it was afternoon and quite hot. I noticed as I was giving it a bit more pasty, that it was pinking, last session i let it hit the rev limiter a couple of times and i thought the pinking was getting worse. I wasn't too bothered I just knocked it off a bit and enjoyed the rest of the day and was quite pleased that a brand new build that was finished at the track had actually lasted a two day meet.

Anyway since i got back I have found the ignition timing was well advanced, i think i mis understood the setup for the ignition, it said the set a mechanical 4 to 10 btdc advance and then tell the ignition what you have set, and then the ignition will follow the map you have put in. I did that and it didn't work. I have made a degree scale and strobed it up, and now the timing is good. I have done two maps and one is 28 btdc and the 26 btdc, just need to get it on a dyno now

I have altered the swinging arm to make it wider towards the piviot point so I have removed the extra chain link and now have full wheel adjustment, and i have bought a fairing and painted it and the seat silver.

So from Donnington like this.



To this, readyish for its next time out, Spa for the Bikers Classic.



Its going to loose one of those discs before then though.

Bugger, I just realised, I think i prefer the Manx fly screen look better.

storm42 said:

Bugger, I just realised, I think i prefer the Manx fly screen look better.

Click to expand...

Yeah, me to actually!

That’s a stunning build you’ve done there and a great thread too.

Please keep the ride reports, tweaks, dyno reports, etc coming.

As you’re going to Beezumph, you are hereby automatically enrolled into the “THC”...

Congratulations !

Fast Eddie said:

Yeah, me to actually!

That’s a stunning build you’ve done there and a great thread too.

Please keep the ride reports, tweaks, dyno reports, etc coming.

As you’re going to Beezumph, you are hereby automatically enrolled into the “THC”...

Congratulations !

Click to expand...

Thank you, whats the THC?

Trident Hunters Club...

Obviously...!

Fast Eddie said:

Trident Hunters Club...

Obviously...!

Click to expand...

Ha, obviously I usually go in the fast classic at the Beezumph on the Commando and frankly the Tridents are just in the way, I have entered the expert classic this time and i have a feeling i am in for a rude awakening

You were right by the way, re joined the VMCC yesterday and they have said they will accept my entry to the Festival, so the entries are in the post. So providing the bike survives Spa, I will see you there.

great build. Those maney cases look really burly. The whole bike looks like an exercise in higher performance parts... well done.

o0norton0o said:

great build. Those maney cases look really burly. The whole bike looks like an exercise in higher performance parts... well done.

Click to expand...

I suppose that is it really but, although I have gone for what most consider to be the best available, the bike isn't just a cheque book build. I won't say it hasn't cost an obscene amount of money but i have tried to make as much as possible myself, doing so has put my stamp on the bike and makes it more mine somehow.

If I was in a position to make a gearbox or an engine I guess i would have made them too, but sometimes we just have to put our hands in our pockets. I have always thought money is not much use until you turn it into something you can play with anyway, better than it being in the bank or under the bed. Glad you like it.