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That’s all Folks 2

Discussion in 'Norton Motorcycles (Modern)' started by Steve Moore, Aug 16, 2019.

  1. Steve Moore

    Steve Moore

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2018
    It’s been a blast but I change my bikes about frequently and the Norton, sadly, needs to make some space for a new bike! Overall it’s been a great bike to own, dealers are lovely here in the UK and determined to do a good job of things, Prime Factors in particular are wonderful people and I would recommend them. Factory support was great from rob and then max and does feel a bit different lately due to a bit of a re-org and gearing up for bigger volumes to come. I hope things improve given the ambitions of the company. This isn’t a factor in my decision.

    Best thing about Norton is the people who love these machines and support each other, this forum in particular being super useful and friendly. I haven’t been massively active posting but have read this forum every day. Thanks to fast Edward for his love of short cans and energy, and thanks welsh rugby for some inspirational cigar suggestions and laid back-ness. I wish you all luck and am certain, if you hang on to these machines, you will be in possession of a very valuable bike 10-15 years hence....

    If anyone would like the detail on what’s gone right and wrong with the machine (2018 CR) I’m happy to provide some factual info, but I would say that at every step, the factory and dealer did all they could to help me and I had a lot of time to enjoy the bike over two summers.

    Thanks all

    Steve
     
    hester, Voodooo and Welshrugby like this.
  2. Britfan60

    Britfan60 VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2014
    Nice tribute. 2018. Wow. What are you replacing it with?
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2019
  3. Steve Moore

    Steve Moore

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2018
    I’m replacing the Norton with a ZZR, but I’m lucky enough to have some other bikes for a classic Sunday blast.
     
  4. Accnor73

    Accnor73

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2018
    Not looking for a zzr are you? I’ll be selling mine this week and it’ll be cheap cheap!

    Sorry your leaving the norton fold. You’ll be back!
     
  5. Welshrugby

    Welshrugby

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2018
    That's a shame Steve. I am using my Indian on the occasional work commutes but love getting out on the Norton, so different. I am current at approx 2200 miles, problems so far

    1. Engine managment light on and very ropey running - Solved once remap, decat and shorties fitted.
    2. Loose bolts on front disk, could have been nasty - Sorted by factory and suggested paint marks on bolts and disk that line up were implemented and no further issue.
    3. Chain guard fractured at bracket fixing point, flapping around, could have been nasty - replacement carbon fibre version sent.
    4. Seat fixing on one site issue, clip fell off due to thin placcy piece breaking - new seat sent overnight.
    5. Backlight on speedo failed at around 1200 miles - communicated to Rob but as he had left, not resolved but must be prior to 2 year warranty running out.
    6. Oil leak from top rocker gasket, asked to be checked at first 600 mile service - think they forgot so must be resolved before warranty running out.

    I am concerned that things will keep cropping up as I put on more miles. I wish that Norton would offer a 5 year warranty like some other brands or offer some extension. I really want to keep this bike long term and would be interested in some future model. I have no complaints over the backup I have received, they have been excellent. I just hope I won't need them for some time apart from servicing the machine and if things go wrong, some good will and reasonableness will prevail. We are after all, salesmen and enthusiastic Norton riders out there, in the market towns and country roads and coffee shops.
     
  6. Steve Moore

    Steve Moore

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2018
    Hi WR,

    That's a similar list to mine, everything on here has been remedied via warranty. I'm keen to relay facts not opinions...!

    Early days - Rough running - All sensors replaced post de-cat & sports
    EML intermittent, surging etc - all from duff sensors so not a big issue (lamda/crank position/throttle position sensors)
    Thermal gasket applied to throttle bodies, improved running
    Rocker leak at 600 miles - to be expected, just a tighten
    2x Tank bracket failure - replaced :)
    Failing to hold charge - new battery (didn't resolve), then uprated starter motor (poor starting/needing to live on optimate as standard starter draws too high a voltage initially to power ignition). This has sorted things, starts first time, no issue.
    Front wheel out of round from new, repaired
    3 sets of replacement sports exhausts after internal baffles collapsed due to tack welds - now seam welded replacement installed.
    Failure of 2 metal chainguards. Removal has cured this :)
    Failure of yolk top nut, replaced
    Nearside exhaust bracket failure, replaced
    Both clocks blown out - replaced
    Seat retention bolt - plastic tab on seat failed, not replaced.
    Rocker leak at 2000 miles - rocker cover not completely flat, now ground and sorted, new gasket :)
    EVAP kit delete :)
    Bad pitting of front wheel, sorted under warranty.

    That's it! - I can convey some opinions if anyone wishes
     
  7. BLIGHTYBRIT/SF

    BLIGHTYBRIT/SF VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2016
    I am concerned that things will keep cropping up as I put on more miles. I wish that Norton would offer a 5 year warranty like some other brands or offer some extension.( said by “ Welsh Rugby”

    Yes well said Richard, I’ve mentioned this in a couple of other threads b4,it’s a win win situation for the customer ( us lot ) & Norton,stabilising resale values,keeping bikes in dealer network,reputation ,carrying out updates,modifications on annual servicing & getting to know more about ALL the bikes as they getter older.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
  8. Steve Moore

    Steve Moore

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2018
    You definitely will have niggling issues out of warranty, however the bike is fundamentally quite simple so once each issue is sorted out it should be resolved. Also I would say that Norton are inclined to help even when things are beyond the warranty period or scope, as they have done with me.

    For me, things get worrisome only if your safety when riding becomes a factor.
     
    Eljahara likes this.
  9. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    Is that comment related to your 961 experience?

    I have to confess that if I had suffered like some of you guys have I would have got shut long ago!

    Mine hasn’t been anything like that. Ok, I know I haven’t put on BLIGHTYBRIT kind of mileage, but the bike has been used hard, on the road and track.

    The good news, I guess, is that this shows Norton can produce good bikes... the bad news is that you can’t tell until you’ve bought it !
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
  10. Welshrugby

    Welshrugby

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2018
    Blimey Steve, that is a list and on a mark 2 as well. Yes Blighty, I saw you mention that and then realised recently that my scout has a 5 year and that certainly gives you more confidence. We are not whingy winers on here and I hope that Norton take our comments as constructive. The backup so far from them has been great and I do not want to see their profits being eaten up by warranty issues.
     
  11. Britfan60

    Britfan60 VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2014
    So these bikes are worse now than better. A 2018. Pitiful. Theres not enough time in the day to list my failures. And 5k more than Ducati . sell to the Indians already
     
    Eljahara likes this.
  12. Clive

    Clive VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2017
    I don't agree that these bikes are worse - Norton would admit that the early bikes had a lot of shortcomings, some of which were significant such as clutch baskets, oil breather, fuel vaopourisation, castings, ECU etc but the factory has been working to iron out these out and if you look at the above posts most problems are electrical bits like sensors, bulbs and relays and some structural bracket failures which will only become apparent once users start putting miles on and for the lucky UK owners the majority of us have got good support from the factory. We are the product testers whose experiences benefit future owners. Sorry but that's part of owning a bike like this:- a mass manufacturer would not build a bike like it; the stainless fittings which we take for granted would be mild steel, the polished alloy would be plastic or powder coated and the Brembo/ Ohlins etc would be cheap alternatives and it would sound like a sewing machine. Yes the reliability would be better but would you buy such a dumbed-down bike? If the answer is yes then Mr H*nda is ready to take your cash.

    A forum like this will naturally attract posts from owners with issues and don't reflect the fact that there are a lot more Nortons on the road now so I'm pleased to say I don't regret my purchase one little bit despite the few issues.

    I agree that an extended warranty would be very attractive especially for someone like me putting a fair few miles on - even at a price. What about it Max? I am now heading towards 9000 miles in 2 years of ownership and can't wait for the end of the working day to put on my Goldtop jacket, Davida helmet and goggles and head off with that glorious raucous noise to scare some of the tin can commuters on their way to their semi-detached tv meals.
     
  13. Eljahara

    Eljahara VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2018
    Clive,
    I think as Nigel says - it’s a bit more luck of the draw with these bikes. Steve obviously had a lot of issues, as did Gary C, and it led both of them to get rid of their bikes. Not everyone is as competent to fettle as Richard7 and TonyA, hence the concerns being raised as warranties start to come to an end. It is true that the components are top notch but the Honda replacement you mention can be had for half the price and not necessarily half the fun!
    I am not knocking Norton and I really do want them to succeed, there are few enough British manufacturers these days, but owners are getting concerned that the issues appear not to be resolved.
    Yes the main issues recorded recently are sensors - unfortunately that leads to the ECU stopping the bike from operating as it should and in some cases just stopping it altogether, the fact the ECU is locked also stops owners being able to adjust or resolve issues without returning to a dealer or Norton HQ. All of which hits the reputation and subsequently the sales.
     
  14. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    Well said Clive!

    Anyone logging into this site for the first time having just bought a 961 would likely jump off the nearest bridge!

    There are plenty of owners with good mileage on them. So they are very capable of doing what they’re intended: providing fun mileage.

    Well, at least I hope so... I’ll be testing the theory on mine in Italy next month.

    I still believe, strongly, that there isn’t a new bike available today that matches the sheer riding sensation of the 961.

    In fact f*ck it... the sky is blue... work is dull & life is short... I’m taking mine for a blast now !
     
    Welshrugby and Clive like this.
  15. Clive

    Clive VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2017
    I agree that a sensor failure is not minor if you are stranded on the M42 but I can't see a way round it without Norton sending a few dozen bikes around the world with support vehicles then fixing the faults which arise and repeating the process to a point of satisfactory reliability. This isn't going to happen is it? An extended warranty for 'product tester' owners to get updated parts would certainly help give potential owners more security and I know Norton have been accommodating in some of these post warranty cases.

    It may appear to some that issues aren't being resolved which Is why I am happy to stick my head above the parapet as a satisfied high use owner but I understand why some new owners have thrown in the towel as they expect a premium price bike to have high levels of reliability. Maybe I'm a bit too much of a 'glass half full' person. I just hope that the new bikes have a good level of reliability as electrical failures on a 200bhp superbike are a whole different ball game....

    Sure you can have a lot of fun with a cheap H*nda but then motorcycling is fundamentally an illogical activity when you can pick up a nice little Daewoo car which is cheap to run, has luggage and passenger carrying capacity, and doesn't require an expensive armoured environmental suit. Motorcycling is built on highly personal feelings, aspirations, ambitions, reliving past experiences and a host of other emotions and long may our governments continue to allow us to enjoy it.
     
    Eljahara likes this.
  16. Britfan60

    Britfan60 VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2014
    Hey...I still like the bike. Got 11k on it. But since this is the 5th summer of 6 that its down, I get a bit bitchy. Side by side with most bikes out there, the Norton is a tank. You can justify it all you want with the contracted components failing, but time off the road is just that. Combine that with parts and service....
    Maybe it's just that hand built isn't all that its cracked up to be.
     
  17. TonyA

    TonyA VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    I agree with what you are sauing . But as a long time owner and supporter , Why couldn't most of the issues been vetted earlier on ? Normal buyers will have a difficult time dealing with these issues . Why weren't multiple test bikes ridden many miles etc. I know it cost money to do this but it should have been done better than it was .
     
    cliffa, jan nelder and Britfan60 like this.
  18. TonyA

    TonyA VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    You guys in England are fortunate to have the factory to fall back on . There are lots of owners not so fortunate and lack the necessary resources to deal with the problems. You can dress it up any way you like , but in the end the bikes need to work well.
     
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  19. BritTwit

    BritTwit VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2009
    Correct!
    Hoping that this is demonstrated in the V4 and the future 650's produced.

    As lovely as the 961 is in appearance, it was a first attempt by SG's Norton.
    The first child is always an experiment for its parents, some mistakes will be made, the 961 is no different.

    I hope that there will be a follow-on Commando after the 650 is turned out, and established, successfully.
    Whether that is a complete redesign by Ricardo, or a total new Commando from a clean sheet of paper.
    Or maybe a 650 bored/stroked to 750cc, with vintage-ly styled cases, faux cooling fines, etc.
    But reliable and problem free, so people will think that it must have been made by Honda.
     
    Eljahara likes this.
  20. Eljahara

    Eljahara VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2018
    You already have this bike....
    The T100
     

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