T160 no sta

Well I’m at that stage to want to start this thing up after doing what I can to bring it back to life. I’m getting to the end of my knowledge and ability, too many years playing with fuel injection, ECUs and so on.

First of all what I’ve done of relevance

new fully charged battery
new BR8EIX plugs
new HT leads and non-suppressed caps
fresh E5 fuel
carburettors stripped, ultrasonically cleaned, all passageways are clear, all jets clean etc. new gaskets and seals
new carb to manifold inlet rubbers, new air cleaner
choke slides still fitted and work correctly

OK it’s a pitiful excuse for a starter motor I realise, but it seems to do the job albeit sloooowly. Especially compared to my CNW unit in the Commando. I really am not up to kickstarting a bike these days.

fuel on, tickled, ignition on, press the button, whirr, whirr, and the makings of some wanting to start noises. Coughs, bangs, but nothing else. I’ve tried fuel on, fuel off in case it’s flooded, different throttle openings and so on. Now it’s flat battery time and it’s back on charge.

there are very good sparks with a plug held to the head on all 3 cylinders. the contact breaker gaps are fine, and the breaker faces are clean. This engine has covered only 3600 miles ever and that is apparent when bits are removed and checked. So I’m assuming the timing is correct, I can’t check it. Good compression in all 3 cylinders

So I’d like some useful points to check. I’m getting to a point where I have to get it sorted and back to the owner as I’m going away in a few weeks for a month or more on holiday, although he’s in hospital tomorrow for a second hip replacement.

Good spark at plugs?
Pilot jets rodded out ?

Are you 100% certain you didn’t swap any of the plug leads over ?

A customers bike....
Big question mark as to who has monkeyed up what before you saw it.

Flatspot said:

This engine has covered only 3600 miles ever and that is apparent when bits are removed and checked. So I’m assuming the timing is correct, I can’t check it.

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Why can't you check it statically? Edit Using the 'B' rotor timing marks.

Fast Eddie said:

Are you 100% certain you didn’t swap any of the plug leads over ?

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Also, are you certain the primary wires are connected at the points and coils in the correct 1,3,2 firing order (1 being the timing side cylinder) and that the power to the coils is feeding through the ballast resistor when the starter is not operating?

I removed and replaced all of the wiring in the same order for the coils.

Except I didn’t. I got LH and Centre swopped. Oops.

Try again.

it runs, for the first time in well over 33 years. But, only with the starter operating, so I’m assuming this means I need to look at the ballast resistor? I do have a spare I removed off mine which has electronic ignition.

What should I be checking now?

video of first start, sorry nowhere near MikeT quality, but I’m lots older than him

Fast Eddie said:

Are you 100% certain you didn’t swap any of the plug leads over ?

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Nope. (I swopped the coil leads)

concours said:

A customers bike....
Big question mark as to who has monkeyed up what before you saw it.

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Probably only me, it really was in an ‘as left’ condition for all those years

Flatspot said:

it runs, for the first time in well over 33 years. But, only with the starter operating, so I’m assuming this means I need to look at the ballast resistor?

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Yes, because when the starter motor operates, power to the coils comes from the starter relay C4 terminal (white/blue 'WU' wire), bypassing the normal (ignition switch, kill switch, ballast) ignition feed.
The problem could just be a bad connection or kill switch contact, not necessarily the ballast resistor. Operating the starter with the kill switch 'OFF' would also have the same result.

With the ignition and kill switch ON then there should be power reaching the white/yellow 'WY' ballast resistor terminal.
If not, then as a test, you could run a jumper wire from battery(-) to the WY ballast terminal.

I’ll have to look at this on Friday as I’m off to a Bike auction tomorrow.

I have had the kill switch apart and rebuilt it with new innards, I’ll double check that.

Flatspot said:

I removed and replaced all of the wiring in the same order for the coils.

Except I didn’t. I got LH and Centre swopped. Oops.

Try again.

it runs, for the first time in well over 33 years. But, only with the starter operating, so I’m assuming this means I need to look at the ballast resistor? I do have a spare I removed off mine which has electronic ignition.

What should I be checking now?

video of first start, sorry nowhere near MikeT quality, but I’m lots older than him

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Well done, now I have _another_ target to achieve this year - get my own T160 running!

SteveBorland said:

Well done, now I have _another_ target to achieve this year - get my own T160 running!

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I am hopeful to visit Denmark later this year while I drive my motorhome to Norway. Perhaps I need to call in and see what progress you have made

All apart once more to check the wiring. All appears to be OK.

yes there is power going to the Yellow/White at the ballast resistor. I’ve substituted the ballast off my own T160 with no difference. It doesn’t appear to be relevant which of the 2 wires goes to which of the 2 connectors on the ballast?

Still no difference, starts easily by starter, but does not stay running with the finger off the starter switch.

The starter relay next to the ballast is very rusty externally. Is it worthwhile substituting my new one off my own bike?

Flatspot said:

yes there is power going to the Yellow/White at the ballast resistor.

I’ve substituted the ballast off my own T160 with no difference.

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Ok so is white/blue 'WU' Edit or white/yellow from the ballast resistor connected to (all three) coil(-) negative terminals?
Is power reaching the coils from 'WU' (the ballast resistor)?

Flatspot said:

It doesn’t appear to be relevant which of the 2 wires goes to which of the 2 connectors on the ballast?

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Correct.

Flatspot said:

The starter relay next to the ballast is very rusty externally. Is it worthwhile substituting my new one off my own bike?

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The relay is working normally (because the starter motor is working and the engine is firing as it does so) so the problem would seem to be elsewhere.

The 'ballast-to-coils' wire can be white/yellow UY and not WU.

Incidentally, the 2 wires across the ballast are both WY white/yellow. One going back to the handlebar switch and the other goes across to the rh coil. The only WU white/blue wires being across the coils.

checking across the wiring from the ballast to the coils is fine, showing continuity. Checking power across the WY from the switchgear to the ballast with the power on shows 12v (12.54)

then checking power across the coils with power on also shows 12v. And then it doesn’t, and then it does, and then it doesn’t………

I am confident it’s not wired up to the flasher unit , and I’m going to have to strip the switchgear down again as the kill switch is intermittently on/off/on/off

Thanks Les I appreciate your informed input so quickly. A cuppa and a sandwich and perhaps I’ll get back to it dreckly

L.A.B. said:

The 'ballast-to-coils' wire can be white/yellow UY and not WU.

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I was just finishing my reply post as yours came in, thanks again.

Flatspot said:

then checking power across the coils with power on also shows 12v.

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12V could be correct* when there's no load from the coils (I'm not sure about that).

The coils of course are 6V so the ballast should reduce the voltage for 'normal running'.

*Edit: The T160 workshop manual does mention "Battery voltage...at the coil (-Ve) terminals".

Flatspot said:

I am hopeful to visit Denmark later this year while I drive my motorhome to Norway. Perhaps I need to call in and see what progress you have made

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Aargh! Need some notice so that I can get it to _look_ as if somethings happening