- Joined
- Jul 25, 2010
- Messages
- 5,784
Super Sportster .
- Thread starter Matt Spencer
- Start date
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2011
- Messages
- 639
I knew Lance Weil 20-25 years ago when I used to have a couple of XLR Harley racers as well as an alloy xr750.
Most people don't have any idea what an XLR is or that they even existed, it is not even mentioned in this article, they use the term "xlcr", which means nothing unless you are talking about the Harley xlcr street bike sold in the later 1970's.
An XLR Harley was exactly this: A KR flathead engine machined to accept Sportster cylinders and OHV heads. The heads were machined differently than a street Sportster though in that they took long-reach spark plugs where the street bike took plugs of shorter length.
The KR-based crankcases were different castings than a Sportster and not interchangeable, never having been machined for a generator either. The flywheels were lighter with a bigger crankpin and rods to suit. Camshafts ran on ball bearings where the street bikes ran on bushings. At one point Harley made several sets of Sportster heads in aluminum that a few racers ended up with but they were never produced in any numbers.
The factory "R" frames had no bosses for side-stands and had fork clamps that gave a different trail for quick steering. "R" brakes were 8" aluminum conical pieces with single leading shoes and cooling fins cast in. Bikes had an alloy rear fender and stays that looked like the steel Sportster parts. Harley had one set of chassis parts that suited dirt-track racing, and another set of chassis parts that suited road-racing, a lot of racers mixed and matched the combination. Originally the frames were of cast-iron lug construction, but towards the later sixties they began to use welded up chromemoly frames, though this was mostly on the factory efforts and for maybe a few very top privateers.
The over-the-shelf XLR looked very much like a Sportster but hardly any parts, engine or chassis were interchangeable. These bikes were very rare, most years they were made production was from one to three dozen. I had one that was serial #7 and one with a number in the twenties from two different years.
At one point for whatever reason the Harley Davidson factory got tired of dealing with Lance Weil. He had sent them the race engine in this featured bike for overhaul, which was serial# 67xlr1001, and he never got it back from them, they told him it had been stolen and that there would be no more assistance from the factory.
In the 1990's Weil tried to cash in some of this racing history. I was at his shop in 1992 and he had got someone to make him a dozen or so Manx Norton frames which he was going to put Harley Sportster engines into and sell as replicas of his old race bike for big bucks, the frames were all lined up sitting in a loft, and he had a few pieces of old Rickman brakes and some Sportster engine parts.
He wanted to "borrow" the engine out of one of my XLRs for use in the prototype but I was not too keen on letting the engine from such a rare bike go so I referred him to the owner of another XLR who might and did lend him the engine. This guy had a heck of a time getting his engine back from Weil.
The prototype appeared in one of the USA magazines with a nickel plated frame and orange paint at one point, but nothing more ever became of the project.
Lance Weil ended up killing himself in a machine-shop accident several years ago. His son tried selling some of the replica Manx frames on ebay at one time.
Most people don't have any idea what an XLR is or that they even existed, it is not even mentioned in this article, they use the term "xlcr", which means nothing unless you are talking about the Harley xlcr street bike sold in the later 1970's.
An XLR Harley was exactly this: A KR flathead engine machined to accept Sportster cylinders and OHV heads. The heads were machined differently than a street Sportster though in that they took long-reach spark plugs where the street bike took plugs of shorter length.
The KR-based crankcases were different castings than a Sportster and not interchangeable, never having been machined for a generator either. The flywheels were lighter with a bigger crankpin and rods to suit. Camshafts ran on ball bearings where the street bikes ran on bushings. At one point Harley made several sets of Sportster heads in aluminum that a few racers ended up with but they were never produced in any numbers.
The factory "R" frames had no bosses for side-stands and had fork clamps that gave a different trail for quick steering. "R" brakes were 8" aluminum conical pieces with single leading shoes and cooling fins cast in. Bikes had an alloy rear fender and stays that looked like the steel Sportster parts. Harley had one set of chassis parts that suited dirt-track racing, and another set of chassis parts that suited road-racing, a lot of racers mixed and matched the combination. Originally the frames were of cast-iron lug construction, but towards the later sixties they began to use welded up chromemoly frames, though this was mostly on the factory efforts and for maybe a few very top privateers.
The over-the-shelf XLR looked very much like a Sportster but hardly any parts, engine or chassis were interchangeable. These bikes were very rare, most years they were made production was from one to three dozen. I had one that was serial #7 and one with a number in the twenties from two different years.
At one point for whatever reason the Harley Davidson factory got tired of dealing with Lance Weil. He had sent them the race engine in this featured bike for overhaul, which was serial# 67xlr1001, and he never got it back from them, they told him it had been stolen and that there would be no more assistance from the factory.
In the 1990's Weil tried to cash in some of this racing history. I was at his shop in 1992 and he had got someone to make him a dozen or so Manx Norton frames which he was going to put Harley Sportster engines into and sell as replicas of his old race bike for big bucks, the frames were all lined up sitting in a loft, and he had a few pieces of old Rickman brakes and some Sportster engine parts.
He wanted to "borrow" the engine out of one of my XLRs for use in the prototype but I was not too keen on letting the engine from such a rare bike go so I referred him to the owner of another XLR who might and did lend him the engine. This guy had a heck of a time getting his engine back from Weil.
The prototype appeared in one of the USA magazines with a nickel plated frame and orange paint at one point, but nothing more ever became of the project.
Lance Weil ended up killing himself in a machine-shop accident several years ago. His son tried selling some of the replica Manx frames on ebay at one time.
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2010
- Messages
- 8,215
XR heads are a lot more different than that - if you find the pics that Matt posted elsewhere here on SuperSportsters, XR exhaust ports all? face forward. There are iron and alloy versions too, weren't the iron ones known as 'waflle irons' - because of the heat they put out !
A lot of sportsters are appearing in featherbeds these days, and have been for some years, as roadbikes. Some in the UK recently, is Unity behind this ? And Egli Sportsters have been around for a while - with the engines in Buells putting out 100+ bhp, makes for an almost serious sports bike, a challenge to the mighty Vincents... ?
A lot of sportsters are appearing in featherbeds these days, and have been for some years, as roadbikes. Some in the UK recently, is Unity behind this ? And Egli Sportsters have been around for a while - with the engines in Buells putting out 100+ bhp, makes for an almost serious sports bike, a challenge to the mighty Vincents... ?
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2010
- Messages
- 5,784
This XR is the first series , Iron & SINGLE Carbuator , pressumably Wiel's was a ' sorrta ' Iron XR 883 ,
Though the Barrels Heads are Silver .
Thrown some XR stuff on anyfing else m/c related " O'Briens Folly " which I believer they called the KR .
Though the Barrels Heads are Silver .
Thrown some XR stuff on anyfing else m/c related " O'Briens Folly " which I believer they called the KR .
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2011
- Messages
- 639
Rohan said:
You guys don't know what you are talking about, as usual.
The Sportster XL came out in 1957 at 883cc, iron heads and cylinders and it had it's single carb in the middle and one exhaust coming out the front of the engine and one the rear. The XLR, or Racing XL came out about 1960. It was 883cc also but with the KR flathead racing engine parts incorporated. Same intake and exhaust port layout as the regular XL. Again, XLR production heads were exactly the same as XL Sportster street heads except the plug bosses were not machined down as far so as to fit racing long-reach plugs.
The iron xr750 was a de-stroked XLR engine in a new chromoly frame with glass tank and Ceriani forks, it also had the same inlet and exhaust layout as the XL and XLR before it. The factory did modify some of the factory bikes with welded-up heads to use dual carbs and re-worked exhaust like the later alloy XR750, but this only appeared on a small handful of the factory bikes like Cal Rayborn's road racer etc..
The iron XR750 was such a POS, even in factory form, that Mert Lawill took his KR flathead back out on the track because the XR was not helping him to retain the #1 Champion plate that he had won with the KR in 1969.
There are plenty of Iron xr750 parts and bikes laying around to this day because a lot of them got shoved in a corner, the best use for them was as a shelf or holding up walls.
The WR was a 45 cubic inch flathead racing Harley of pre-unit construction that was discontinued when the KR750 came out in 1952 with it's unitized engine-transmission unit.
I owned and rode Harley factory race bikes and had all the factory parts and service manuals for them, it is called "first-hand" experience....
As usual the only thing I am worried about is the butchering that facts and history get on the WWW, beyond that it is not worth my time or effort unless it has some practical application when I am off the computer....
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2010
- Messages
- 5,784
edited , thanks ;
Thanks for the compliment , nice to know its worth the bother . :shock:
Just put the stuff on for peoples amusement and edification .Dont regard any as anything as Gospel from the press ,
Though the Motorcycle one often try to get it right , Quite aware that many ' Just make it up ' .
Dont worship craven images ! or covet them . :lol: 8)
Can you tell us if Wiel's heads or barrels were alloy , that weight sees not a lot for a cast iron tractor ?? Thanks .
( Gee Grumpy Grumpy )
Youve obviously got it wrong ,
If you raced them when it was Snowing , you could win ,
as Rayborn did in England . :lol:
XR 750 72 match races . Cal rayborn .
brien-folly-t12060.html
Quite a few in Aus .ALuminum ones , Springsteen did a demo over here ,
ive seen them in Melbourne , Canberra , woolongong ,
and an odd late nickle plated chrome molly thing in Alburry , looks kinda like a M-X bike .
Got any photographs , Beng . Us turkeys with obsolette Twins need to stick rtogether .
you need 16 cylinders to be cool ,these days . :wink:
http://www.ozebook.com/riders/cal.htm
Cal Rayborn match race imaginarry drivle .
Thanks for the compliment , nice to know its worth the bother . :shock:
Just put the stuff on for peoples amusement and edification .Dont regard any as anything as Gospel from the press ,
Though the Motorcycle one often try to get it right , Quite aware that many ' Just make it up ' .
Dont worship craven images ! or covet them . :lol: 8)
Can you tell us if Wiel's heads or barrels were alloy , that weight sees not a lot for a cast iron tractor ?? Thanks .
( Gee Grumpy Grumpy )
Youve obviously got it wrong ,
If you raced them when it was Snowing , you could win , as Rayborn did in England . :lol:
XR 750 72 match races . Cal rayborn .
brien-folly-t12060.html
Quite a few in Aus .ALuminum ones , Springsteen did a demo over here ,
ive seen them in Melbourne , Canberra , woolongong ,
and an odd late nickle plated chrome molly thing in Alburry , looks kinda like a M-X bike .
Got any photographs , Beng . Us turkeys with obsolette Twins need to stick rtogether .
you need 16 cylinders to be cool ,these days . :wink:
http://www.ozebook.com/riders/cal.htm
Cal Rayborn match race imaginarry drivle .
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2010
- Messages
- 8,215
One minor typo...
Not everyone shares your view.
"Harley’s all-conquering oval dirt track racer."
http://www.motosolvang.com/bike_pages/1 ... _XR750.htm
Note the typo there too, its not a mini Honda at all.
Not everyone shares your view.
"Harley’s all-conquering oval dirt track racer."
http://www.motosolvang.com/bike_pages/1 ... _XR750.htm
Note the typo there too, its not a mini Honda at all.
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2010
- Messages
- 5,784
" NO BRAKES " :shock: , no wonder theyre fast . :lol:
Ive corrected that , Beng . Throwing stuff on here , often other distractions to the task in hand .
More to the point was the competancy of the Machines .The Olde Side Valve did a pretty Good Job .
Spending millions and all the sophistication in the world doesnt neccesarilly produce a machine better , for the Task at Hand .
For a person to disparge its handling ( Falsely ) is for them to miss the point completely .
A machine of that type , for a Knockabout back road / solo mail man / everyday hack , the light weight , low C.of G.
and simplicity . If matched with a low price , make it the horse for the job .Though not ALL the modern stuffs frenetic.
Ive corrected that , Beng . Throwing stuff on here , often other distractions to the task in hand .
More to the point was the competancy of the Machines .The Olde Side Valve did a pretty Good Job .
Spending millions and all the sophistication in the world doesnt neccesarilly produce a machine better , for the Task at Hand .
For a person to disparge its handling ( Falsely ) is for them to miss the point completely .
A machine of that type , for a Knockabout back road / solo mail man / everyday hack , the light weight , low C.of G.
and simplicity . If matched with a low price , make it the horse for the job .Though not ALL the modern stuffs frenetic.
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2010
- Messages
- 8,215
Note that BenG omitted the bit about the alloy XR750, the most successful HD racer ever.
With front facing exhaust ports.
What was that about butchering history...
http://www.dropbears.com/h/harley-davidson/xr750.htm
With front facing exhaust ports.
What was that about butchering history...
http://www.dropbears.com/h/harley-davidson/xr750.htm
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2006
- Messages
- 1,152
beng said:
ha - love it!
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2010
- Messages
- 5,784
We obviously need a Kawasaki . Theres No Hope for Us .
See youre a 110% er Mike , got a picture of the Ton Ten Tiger , please .
See youre a 110% er Mike , got a picture of the Ton Ten Tiger , please .
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2006
- Messages
- 1,152
Matt Spencer said:
yes
version #1
version #2 (got sick of dual carb malfunctions + bike tipped over and trashed paint)
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2010
- Messages
- 8,215