Super Capacitors
- Thread starter dero
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Depends on a lot of factors, type of alternator, ignition etc.
I fit capacitors to all my bikes but keep the batteries, the capacitor is there for if and when the battery fails when you pull the fuse to run off the capacitor only. From testing this is the results.
1. B44 with Boyer Digital ignition and single phase alternator. Will start with a single kick with capacitor and run fine with lights on once the engine is running.
2. 850 MK2a with Boyer Digital ignition and 3 phase alternator. Will not start on a kick, just an occasional sign of some ignition but never enough for it to run, Will start with a bump start and then run fine with full lighting.
3. B25 with points and single phase ignition, as B44.
Very small sample but based on this I need more leg muscles to get the 850 to start cap only.
But why run cap only, you can go a lot smaller on the battery say 2 or 3 AH instead of 7 or 10 AH and get a weight reduction and have the Cap as a fail safe if the battery goes dead.
I fit capacitors to all my bikes but keep the batteries, the capacitor is there for if and when the battery fails when you pull the fuse to run off the capacitor only. From testing this is the results.
1. B44 with Boyer Digital ignition and single phase alternator. Will start with a single kick with capacitor and run fine with lights on once the engine is running.
2. 850 MK2a with Boyer Digital ignition and 3 phase alternator. Will not start on a kick, just an occasional sign of some ignition but never enough for it to run, Will start with a bump start and then run fine with full lighting.
3. B25 with points and single phase ignition, as B44.
Very small sample but based on this I need more leg muscles to get the 850 to start cap only.
But why run cap only, you can go a lot smaller on the battery say 2 or 3 AH instead of 7 or 10 AH and get a weight reduction and have the Cap as a fail safe if the battery goes dead.
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Please show link to ONE example.
50 years in electronics and this is a first for me!
dero
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Not good on links , but you tube has videos showing examples on cars.
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Supercapacitors
Eaton supercapacitors, or ultracapacitors, are unique, ultra-high capacitance devices utilizing electric double layer capacitor (EDLC) construction combined with new, high performance materials. This combination of advanced technologies allows Eaton to offer a wide variety of capacitor solutions...
We have started to use these a work as a battery alternative, as a back up when the conventional batteries are at a low state of charge (military armoured fighting vehicle OEM).
Not cheap or small - at least the way we are packaging/using them (starting a 9litre+ diesel engine).
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Well I'd never heard of them either and I've been into electronics all my life. You learn new things every day https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercapacitor
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Leg muscles, the engine cannot be turned over by leg fast enough, hence bump starting will work.
Matchless
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I don't know if this is of any interest but I have a 350 Royal Enfield off road bike which is fitted with a Boyer Powerbox. The bike has a Lucas alternator & no battery. It starts easily idles & runs perfectly. This is the first bike I've had with a powerbox & I'm very happy with it.
Martyn.
Martyn.
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super capacitor = marketing mumbo-jumbo
The principle is explained as follows.
Electrochemical capacitors use the double-layer effect to store electric energy; however, this double-layer has no conventional solid dielectric to separate the charges. There are two storage principles in the electric double-layer of the electrodes that contribute to the total capacitance of an electrochemical capacitor:
principle discovered in the 50's and worked on for over 40 years to make a combo/hybrid chemical battery and capacitor bank.
OP, Save space ? You may need something the size of a car or truck size battery to supply E-Start capability. Kick start? Old fashion 5000uf 35v regular cap is tiny and works OK, maybe not great,
Learn something new every day!
The principle is explained as follows.
Electrochemical capacitors use the double-layer effect to store electric energy; however, this double-layer has no conventional solid dielectric to separate the charges. There are two storage principles in the electric double-layer of the electrodes that contribute to the total capacitance of an electrochemical capacitor:
principle discovered in the 50's and worked on for over 40 years to make a combo/hybrid chemical battery and capacitor bank.
OP, Save space ? You may need something the size of a car or truck size battery to supply E-Start capability. Kick start? Old fashion 5000uf 35v regular cap is tiny and works OK, maybe not great,
Learn something new every day!
dero
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OK , it looks like it is a possibility .
Can any of the electrical gurus on the site offer any advice before I burn my bike to the ground .
2.7v 6F caps x 6 = 16.2v Is this high enough ?
Does it matter what kind of regulation I am using ? Zenner or SH775 etc .
Single or 3 phase alternator ? I have heard that 3 phase gives a bit more a bit earlier .
Any pitfalls I may encounter ?
Kommando...I presume the caps in your examples are the standard type 2MC or similar ?
Can any of the electrical gurus on the site offer any advice before I burn my bike to the ground .
2.7v 6F caps x 6 = 16.2v Is this high enough ?
Does it matter what kind of regulation I am using ? Zenner or SH775 etc .
Single or 3 phase alternator ? I have heard that 3 phase gives a bit more a bit earlier .
Any pitfalls I may encounter ?
Kommando...I presume the caps in your examples are the standard type 2MC or similar ?
Schwany
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I currently have a small 1.3amp 12V AGM battery wired into my electrical system and also have a battery eliminator, and old 2 wire alternator.
Does it work to kick start my 750 motor and run my lights? Yes. Would I run the same setup without a battery. No I would not. Is it small and light? Very. Did I have to design the battery eliminator that replaces all those parts being discussed? No
My battery is probably smaller than whatever super capacitor voodoo there is out there. Battery eliminators are cheap and a heck of a lot smaller than they use to be.
I'll be replacing a very old Mity Maxx battery eliminator tomorrow with a Sparx unit that is about 1/2 the size. Hope the so called newer tech works as good as the antique Mity Maxx. My leg is not 18 years old anymore, and I need all the help I can get.
Good luck with the project
Does it work to kick start my 750 motor and run my lights? Yes. Would I run the same setup without a battery. No I would not. Is it small and light? Very. Did I have to design the battery eliminator that replaces all those parts being discussed? No
My battery is probably smaller than whatever super capacitor voodoo there is out there. Battery eliminators are cheap and a heck of a lot smaller than they use to be.
I'll be replacing a very old Mity Maxx battery eliminator tomorrow with a Sparx unit that is about 1/2 the size. Hope the so called newer tech works as good as the antique Mity Maxx. My leg is not 18 years old anymore, and I need all the help I can get.
Good luck with the project
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I watched the videos.
If the caps are 3 or 6 Farad as they were saying, that is electrically huge. The regular blue cap is around 3600 MICRO farad or .0036 farad.
A regular 3 farad cap may be as big as a 55 gallon drum or a 275 gallon oil tank.
I'll look into this a bit more.
Going from 13.6 volts friday night down to 10 volts by monday morning is a bit concerning to me
If the caps are 3 or 6 Farad as they were saying, that is electrically huge. The regular blue cap is around 3600 MICRO farad or .0036 farad.
A regular 3 farad cap may be as big as a 55 gallon drum or a 275 gallon oil tank.
I'll look into this a bit more.
Going from 13.6 volts friday night down to 10 volts by monday morning is a bit concerning to me
o0norton0o
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I made a capacitor based spot welder to rebuild the NiCd batteries on my portable battery op tools... I used a 3.5 farad capacitor, a 100 amp SCR, some copper wire, foot pedal trigger switch, and I charge the Cap with a cheap battery charger that has 3 color LED lights so I can see the CAP recharge when the light goes green after a welding cycle. I did a bit of research when I made this a few years ago. Many of the people who were in the electronics trades commented that most of the ratings of capacitors were exaggerated by the manufacturers, since you pay more for more capacitance...
I can't remember the amperage and related voltage this Cap put out, but the SCR needed to be 100 amps, so a 3.5 farad Cap packed a 100 amp whollop. I've seen other Capacitor based spot welders and their welds looked hotter than mine, so I bet my Cap is no where near 3.5 farad. There it is inside my see thru cabinet... It's not small. I bet it weighs 10 lbs.
As Dave said, I'm not so sure "Supercapacitor" isn't just a way to make it more expensive for the manufacturer... Whatever the Farad rating is,... that's what it is. Maybe "super" means it's got more power density... IDK...
I can't remember the amperage and related voltage this Cap put out, but the SCR needed to be 100 amps, so a 3.5 farad Cap packed a 100 amp whollop. I've seen other Capacitor based spot welders and their welds looked hotter than mine, so I bet my Cap is no where near 3.5 farad. There it is inside my see thru cabinet... It's not small. I bet it weighs 10 lbs.
As Dave said, I'm not so sure "Supercapacitor" isn't just a way to make it more expensive for the manufacturer... Whatever the Farad rating is,... that's what it is. Maybe "super" means it's got more power density... IDK...
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I have the same. Weights only 500 gr.
Never felt the need for a bigger battery.
In my toolbox, I carry this small cap ( compared to std 2MC) :
35V 4700 mF
In case of a flat battery, I plug it in instead.
It starts the bike well (Pazon surefire), but it gets warm.
For permanent running without battery, I think you need a more substantial capacitor, at least 10000 mF.
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