sudden violent kickback

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I went for a 100 k ride two weeks ago and coming back the bike started to lurch and miss at 3500 and 100khph. Once back in town it seemed fine no more missing. On getting home i found i had been riding with the choke half open so put the miss at speed down to that.Parked the bike up for two weeks on trickle charge. Today I tried to start the bike and every time i kick it violently kicks back at the foot and also thru the RH carbie( thats a bit of a guess but the RHS of the cleaner is where the fumes and noise are coming from.). Brand new battery fully charged and reading 12.7v . Drained the sump which sometimes causes me starting problems after a few weeks. Checked the Pazon in the points cover, no loose wires and nothing seems to have moved. I cant check the timing because i cant start the bike. I would appreciate any suggestions on what to check next before i try to kick it again. An angry Norton is a scary thing to try and start
 
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Running the bike with the choke half way open fouled up both the plugs and the carbs. Clean the carbs out and replace the plugs and it should be okay. But with the choke half way open it's running the bike lean and hopefully didn't damage anything else.
 
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I thought it would run rich also Chris, they are called enrichers after all, given that i can accept that i may have fouled the plugs so i will check that first up . I dont understand how i could have fouled the carbies tho, isnt rich or lean for that matter just a matter of air fuel ratio, how can that foul or damage anything anything apart from plugs or valves or cause overheating issues
 
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Problem solved maybe?? I found the earth wire from the pazon box was loose as the nut had come undone that holds it,, Once tightened the bike started first kick but still kicked back as it started After a run I stopped and it started first kick again but it still tried to kick back as it did, I am hoping it was just me being scared to kick right thru it as it has nearly broke my foot and leg today. When i get back to it i will recheck the timing , Can someone tell me which way i turn the plate (pazon) to retard it so that i know it wont bite me when i start it to check the timing. I think it is set at 32 from memory ( i have the instructions somewhere) but for the sake fo this question if we assume that it is 32 and i was to set it at say 30 am i able to eliminate all kickback without creating other problems, I am happy to sacrifice a bit of power for a friendly kick, Thanks
 

L.A.B.

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Rockyrob said:
Can someone tell me which way i turn the plate (pazon) to retard it so that i know it wont bite me when i start it to check the timing. I think it is set at 32 from memory ( i have the instructions somewhere) but for the sake fo this question if we assume that it is 32 and i was to set it at say 30 am i able to eliminate all kickback without creating other problems, I am happy to sacrifice a bit of power for a friendly kick, Thanks

Norton Pazon Sure-Fire is set to 31 degrees at 4,000 RPM.: http://www.pazon.com/files/PDF/PA2.pdf

To retard any ignition, move the pickup plate (or points plate) in the same direction as the pickup rotor (or AAU for points) rotation, which is Anticlockwise (Counterclockwise) for all Commando camshaft driven ignitions.
 
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Dont worry,

My "s" type always is angry and kicks back.....even when doing everthing above. Some say you need to comit to the kick!!.......i might be able to go for a ride when my anke starts to get better!!
 
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Aren't pazons resonably clearly marked with degrees and directions???
 
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This is why I went to the Tri Spark, I was still getting the occasional kickback from the Boyer even though everything was pretty right. I think the last time I got it I had let the battery get a little low. The Pazon seems to resemble the Boyer and i'm sure a bad connection or a slight low battery could equal an injury.
As I near 60 I find I can't really afford a broken leg, as many of us are getting older I feel that having my right arm mostly out of play is bad enough. You might find that investing a few bucks in a Tri Spark might be money well spent.
 
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Yes Splatt it is marked anticlockwise etc but it shows both directions depoending on the sort of bike it is fitted to i guess, Thanks LAB i thought it was Anti but didnt want to go the wrong way and make it even angrier to attempt to start. Any other users noticed an improvemnet if using trispark?. I thought they were basically the same. And will retarding it cause problems?
 
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I heard of the Tri Spark here, I'm sure it is in a few threads. It made a very large change on my bike.
 
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My local Norton guy swears by Boyer. I put it on my bike from the start and have been generally happy with it.

I do get occasional kickbacks, though.

I've found a good pair of boots and a slightly bent knee prevent any limping. I use Redwings for work, and they are great cycle boots, too.

sudden violent kickback
 
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Hi RockyRob.
I thought you might like to hear of my experiences with violent kickback. Not because it will be of any use to you, but because it might give you a bit of a laugh to hear of someone who suffered worse than you!

I restored my 850 last year, with a new analogue Boyer Mk3 system on and brand new carbs (amal Mk1's).
I set up the ign static and then gave it a tweak to what I thought was retard, but was actally advance.
I then tried starting it using Les Emery's advice on the Norvil website, which was shift the kickstart untill it goes hard (i.e. towards TDC), tickle, choke and leap....the kickstart resistance felt terrible and neither me or me mate (neither of us had any Commando experience, I should add here) could seem to get the kickstart lever all the way though to the bottom. Sometimes the kickback was terrible, which resulted in my right ankle becoming sore. I then made the mistake of trying with my left foot....don't EVER do that...I am still waiting to be able to start jogging again 10 months later...
I then reset the boyer, both statically and with a strobe, and started moving the kickstart to just past TDC, tickle choke and leap. This was much better, but it would still sometimes fire quite soon down the kickstroke, stopping my foot dead, but not kicking back.

So I then started bringing the kickstart to right on TDC, i.e moving it until hard then continuing to 'nudge' up till it feels to be going soft, but not moving down.
The bike never kicks back now.
So my advice is good setup with Boyer, definately not advanced...get the lever right on TDC, just take up the slack on the throttle lever but no more... and you should be OK.
I will let you know how my ankles are next year....if they have improved...
Stu.
 
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bigstu said:
Hi RockyRob.

I then tried starting it using Les Emery's advice on the Norvil website, which was shift the kickstart untill it goes hard (i.e. towards TDC), tickle, choke and leap....

I'm not sure if your interpretation or the instructions are a little off but the one key thing is to get the piston past TDC before kicking.

Sadly people don't get the "pleasure" of kickstarting big four-stroke singles anymore. Nothing learns you faster than kicking a big single the wrong way. The big twins are very similar, although a wee bit more forgiving.

What is happing is that by pushing the piston past TDC (just slightly) you are now looking at reduced compression and now the inertia of the piston coming down to help the starting process. WIth a big single you need to use a compression release, with the twins you should be able to push past TDC without one.

By not getting the piston past TDC you are trying to force the piston wit your leg through it's full compression. Not ideal.
 
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However, when you get near the bottom of the kickstarter stroke you hit TDC again. That tends to be when I got my sore foot.
 
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So the Bigstu nickname doesnt give you an advantage on the lever :) I think i get it to TDC mostly before kicking or even a little past, Where it kicks is nearing the bottom of the swing which makes sense as the other jug is now fully compressed and ready to fire i guess. Which sort of makes it scary to kick right thru as its basically perpendicular and when it comes back hard my leg is fairly str8 at that point and not a lot of give. I have let the old girl sit and sulk for a few days and will retard it slightly before i try again.

Cheers
 
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i'm going to get some rollers...........and then if i have to stop,.....park on a hill!!!
 
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I'll let you know the frist time the Tri-spark kick back. Mine is going to be deadly becuse I'm fitting a Mrk3 lever extended two inches (when the chromer finally finishes that is). That ought to give the old beast even more leverage if she kicks back.
Boots and all she had me limping for a week last time so I expect to go into orbit if the Tri Spark fails me.
The only reason I bout the TS was to prevent kick back and after corresponding with Tri Spark. I believe he told me he has not had a kickback report yet, and I've never known an Aussie to lie to me unless we were drunk and talking about sports.
 

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Rockyrob, Do you have an offset crank? On standard Norton's the two pistons move side by side. One will be on the power stroke the other on the intake stroke.
 
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Keep in mind I'm a bit senile, but I'm pretty sure mine does about the same as his. Seems like I roll it over TDC, let the lever back up and give her the boot and when I get to the bottom of the stroke she'd boot me right back. This would mean I had not made the correct offering to the Boyer spirits in some way.
I'm assuming I'd just gone past the firing stroke on one side and was hitting firing on the other cyl near the bottom. I'm also assuming that she was giving me a stray spark and firing a bit early.
 
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