Stubborn rear wheel spindle

Hi there
Wondered if someone might be able to help with a problem I'm having trying to remove the rear wheel?

I'm trying to remove the rear wheel from my '74 MKIIA, but the R/H main axel does not want to withdraw. It just turns around very tightly, just as though there is a locked nut at the other end that is turning along with the axel.

I've read some of the earlier posts on this topic and tried the following, but the axel seems to be locked or possibly caught upon something?

* Note that the L/H side stub/dummy axel isn't turning when I turn the R/H main axel and I've tried with the L/H side stub/dummy axel Nut locked
and also with it off. This still has the same results.
* I've tried removing the R/H main axel with the bike on the side stand and also on the main stand
* Tried quick, sharp taps, to try and break the connection, but that didnt work.
* Have also removed the shock absorbers with the bike on the main stand, and the wheel drops.
* Note that the tire is flat, so also wedged some wood under the wheel to take off some of the weight, but nope.
* Tried bouncing & wiggling the wheel but it will only move back and forth on the L/H brake side, since the R/H main axel side is pretty much locked
to the frame.
* Also tried using the R/H chain tensioner screw to try and push the R/H side axel back a bit. This worked but then as soon as I started turning the axel,
it rotated back into the original place again.
* Tried placing some adjustable pliers/wrench behind the crown of the R/H main axel nut and hitting the handle to try and pry the axel out, but it's
not coming out at all. It hasn't budged at all with any of these measures.
* There was a moment when I did see that the L/H side stub/dummy nut moved, and so I locked it down again, but that didn't change anything.
I understand that the main axel just floats where it connects to the L/H side stub/dummy axel

I think might just need to keep trying & call a friend, but any advice would be most appreciated
Cheers
Mike

Mike T said:

Hi there
Wondered if someone might be able to help with a problem I'm having trying to remove the rear wheel?

I think might just need to keep trying & call a friend, but any advice would be most appreciated
Cheers
Mike

Click to expand...

The threads on that bolt are pretty fine... sounds like it's stripped in the middle where it connects to the other half of the axle. I felt mine binding just a bit as I was turning the right side... backed it out and could see where the threads were starting to bugger... ran a die across the threads a few times with some WD40 to clean them out.. actually, couldn't find a die that size but found a nut that fit. It's easy to get those fine threads on the wrong track when bolting it up. That's my bet anyway.

Ugh. Long axle should only be held in the stub axle by the fine threads, so lots of twists to free but should begin to back out on its own near the end of the threads. Only thing I can think might trap the long axle is the dual row bearing so crapped out its worn a lip in the long axle or collapsed on axle trapping it. May have to drill axle nut to get a pin through to grab on with a hammer puller or lever.

Go over to Harbor Frieght and see if they have an inexpensive slide hammer. Most of those kits have an adapter to put a vise grip on the end of the slide hammer. Use as straight jawed vise grip as you can find, grab the axel and give it a few whacks to see if you can get any relief. You are probably looking at some new parts, but destroying the smallest amount would be nice. I have also made a similar arrangement by attaching a loop of chain to the item I needed to move and looping the chain over a big hammer. A good swing in a straight line away from the object will deliver a pretty good tug when the chain hits tight. Tugging and spinning at the same time would be great. You might want to find a friend.

Russ

Thank you all very much for your advice. Will try and let you know how it goes

Finally got the rear wheel off today
A group of friends were very helpful during a "Tech Day" for the ONE (Oregon Norton Owners) club.

The axle still wouldn't budge and so we resorted to the low-tech method, using a hacksaw. It was surprising just how easy it was to cut through the spacer and then through the axle itself. We cut about 1/2 way along the spacer, between the frame and the speedo gear and cut right through the spacer and then the axle on the right hand side.

We then removed the spacer, speedo and removed the end of the axke and moved the wheel over to the right. Finally, cut through the stub axel, again quite easily, and that allowed us to remove the wheel. As you can see below, it seems that the root cause as a bad thread and also the main axel seems to be completely locked into the stub axel.

Cheers
Mike

That's one stuck up buggered up axle but just think memories you'd of missed out on if axle had just back out single handed. I've been rescued by a team effort at a rally when over my head to get going again.

Sorry to change the subject here, but I couldn't help noticing that your spoke pattern is different to mine. IIRC from a thread on wheel building, you have the "mirror" pattern.
When I recently re-spoked my front wheel after owning this bike for nearly 30 years, I only then noticed that it had the mirror pattern. The rear wheel, which I re-rimmed many years ago, has the other pattern (where the outer spokes face in opposite directions and likewise the inners.)
For the recent job I had access to a NOC wheel building guide. It doesn't mention optional patterns, it describes the other pattern, and that's when I started thinking that my front wheel had been laced wrongly all that time.
But apparently it's not wrong, just different.

Martin

Did somebody force the wrong threads together? I remember from past discussions that there were different dummy axles used and some different thread patterns. You gotta wonder if that axle is from the incorrect year as if I remember correctly the dummy axles either fit the brake hub or not, but I suppose it would be possible to use the wrong year axle and force it. Amazing they got it together that far. Kinda scary.

Russ

MFB said:

Sorry to change the subject here, but I couldn't help noticing that your spoke pattern is different to mine. IIRC from a thread on wheel building, you have the "mirror" pattern.
When I recently re-spoked my front wheel after owning this bike for nearly 30 years, I only then noticed that it had the mirror pattern. The rear wheel, which I re-rimmed many years ago, has the other pattern (where the outer spokes face in opposite directions and likewise the inners.)
For the recent job I had access to a NOC wheel building guide. It doesn't mention optional patterns, it describes the other pattern, and that's when I started thinking that my front wheel had been laced wrongly all that time.
But apparently it's not wrong, just different.

Martin

Click to expand...

Soooooo... is my nipple protruding spoke pattern a mirror image? :?:

rvich said:

Did somebody force the wrong threads together? I remember from past discussions that there were different dummy axles used and some different thread patterns. You gotta wonder if that axle is from the incorrect year as if I remember correctly the dummy axles either fit the brake hub or not, but I suppose it would be possible to use the wrong year axle and force it. Amazing they got it together that far. Kinda scary.

Russ

Click to expand...

Yeah, but in this case I think someone just buggered up the threads.

concours said:

Soooooo... is my nipple protruding spoke pattern a mirror image? :?:

Click to expand...

All your outer spokes face anticlockwise from the hub, and the inners face clockwise, viewed from the brake side. My memory is a bit faulty these days, but I think this was described as the "mirror" pattern on thread I was reading. The other pattern, which both my wheels now have, also has a name but I can't remember it.
The NOC instructions result in this other pattern, and it ensures that the spokes enter the dimples in the rim at the correct angle.
Maybe the mirror pattern is equally sound, although thinking back on my front wheel before I re-spoked it, some spokes seemed to bind where they crossed over.
Incidentally, my reason for re-spoking the front was because it had a mixture of spoke types and nipple sizes, many of which were seized.

Martin

When I respoked my front wheel, I got all the spokes going in the wrong direction. I've seen pics of a Enfield like that I think. But the spokes fit fine, it probably would have worked fine, just didn't look right, so I re-did it. I should have taken a picture.

Dave
69S

DogT said:

I should have taken a picture.

Dave
69S

Click to expand...

I took a picture, but I'm struggling to post it. It took me a long time to figure it out before, but now photobucket has changed and put me back to square one.
Then again, I only discovered the internet two years ago. This is 1993 isn't it?
Here goes: