Stripped!

Thought I might as well strip and paint the frame while I had the engine out. What an effort. Like an x-ray of an old warrior this bike has seen a fair bit of action. Get someone else to do this if you're ever contemplating a complete strip-down. It's messy and nasty. I used the Karcher and washed all the crap on to the back lawn. Sort of shitting in my own back yard if you'll pardon the language.

Bit more cleaning up to go, but here we are:

That's a day's work with paint stripper, wire brushes and wet-and-dry.


This has got to go. I'd rather have only a centre stand than know this bodge is there. Angle grinder soon baby! Can anyone tell me if the adjacent plate is standard and if so, is it for a sidestand?


Front mount for the isolastic. Don't think it's meant to be like that. Could be wrong tough. Answers on a postcard or preferrably here!


Don't get it. Did the DPO hate this bike or something? What was he trying to do. Enough to make a grown man groan.

Have splashed out and bought some vernier isolastics from NZ as the exchange rate makes the pricing very favourable. Also the missing bits for the front and a new swingarm axle. Big hole in wallet, but this is it. She's going to be GOOD when she's back together.

Have lined up a professional to do the frame painting. $100 to $150 (pending on how much prep he has to do) with 2pack. I'll try and do as much as I can.

I would be looking for a replacement frame, That "mess" where some Dick as been playing with a welder would deter me from carrying on....get a good foundation Dave :!: You will feel a lot better with the finnished result.

Fatigue Crack repaired in the gusset generated by the bolt flogging around .

Lower bracket appears to have ovulated ? :? tube opposite .
Disc Grinder will heat , ordinarily cut to say 1 mm and finish with barstard File .
A stiff frame hacksaw with new blade would be as easy , if your eyes in .

Steel pins through the Iso Mount Holes , would alow you to eyeball / measure alignment ,
before following previous posts suggestion . What sortta bike are you building ? ?
Street , Resto , Hillclimber , Tourer . ? ? The later frame has the shock mts gussetet to the seat rail.
If youve got the welder out you may as well fit that .
Cutting the upper gusset back to clean metal and letting in a new section would pay .

A WHOLE day ! :shock: Took that long to do mine , with a scaper , steel rule & finish sand ( the easy bit ) .
I just used spay cans , which stayed on remarkably well to the clean surface . Woulnt go spending a fortune
in case you trip over a mint cheap replacement the week after youve got it back .

Better get out the framr drawing and give it a checkover . :?
Not hard to let in new tube to a skilled welder. Crushed areas alter load / strees distribution .
Could ckuck a piar of 1 1/4 dia cradle tubes in to freak out the original grease nipple brigade .


Stayed over the way from you , at the turkey with the H2 & pipes in a LC yamahaha , red one . Seen It ??

If the steering stops arnt knocked off , its not hit a Rolls Royce , so is probly straight .

Putting two feet on it and heaving with two hands on the opposite rail will show you its seemed ridgidity .

Dont you lad's like grit blasters :?: :!:

davamb said:

Can anyone tell me if the adjacent plate is standard and if so, is it for a sidestand?

Click to expand...

Yes, and yes.

http://www.nortonproject.org/1969Commando5.jpg


The petrol tank brackets have been mostly cut away, I don't know if you were aware of that or not?
http://www.nortonproject.org/1969Commando4.jpg

The start to a beautifull end.
Stick to it Dave.
AC.

Nice thing about blast cleaning a frame, is that any cracks are easily visible after blasting, and you have a very good surface for paint or powder, with no need for laborious rubbing down.

It's true, black paint does hide all evils. There's nothing that can't be fixed. Definately check for straight and other cracks or faults. Is it a matching number frame?

Dave,

A lot of good advice was given so far.

Hats off for the chem strip paint removal! That took quite an effort and it turned out very nice. I prefer grit blast but I understand that you have to use what is available.

Looks like the frame had to deal with a few loose bolts. If the frame is sound, brackets are easy to repair or replace.

The frame looks pretty good to me and is certainly fixable assuming that it is not bent. Matt offers good advice to check out a few dimensions before you get too involved as well as the shock mount gusset fix.

My opinion is that sidestands come in pretty handy and last a great long time if they are used to support the weight of the bike only. The flat plate assembly is different from my ’73 which looks a bit more like your added bracket. I assume yours is a ’69 (based on LAB’s post) and the added bracket was an “upgrade”. If it’s there and it works, I’d leave it (though it does look like it may need to be straightened a bit). Not sure if this is a common fix.

I see a few things different from your frame to mine so maybe folks more knowledgeable will suggest other worthwhile upgrades while you are at it.

Good catch by LAB to notice the petrol tank brackets; again an easy fix.

For a black frame, I’d rattle can it and save a hundred bucks (that’s a lot of beer!....I’ll be right over!). The new rattle can paints are actually very good. The only time I bc/cc a frame is if it has to match the sheet metal. I painted my Honda CR250 frame with rustoleum epoxy (used an auto store rattle can etch filler primer) and it is holding up great after three years riding off road.


bel

john robert bould said:

Dont you lad's like grit blasters :?: :!:

Click to expand...

You will still have to pay the labour for someone to clean all the road crud off before it will even get into the grit blaster,

Weld a few bits or 2 x 1 angle on , she'll be right ( Just Kidding ) Earliest Side Stand mounts were bolt on / over tube. Typically fanged out . Common fix , let in new frame tube . There ((was) a multiplicity of side stand fittings .

Protudeing Outward , they get in the way of the Closer Fitting P.R. pipes ( everyone should have some ) so are better
left off .

STARTING a MOTOCYCLE on the Sidestand , particularly astride it , was a Hanging Offence . but operator friedliness ? ?
ensured later massive designs of sidestand developed . Which if not flicked far enough aft , will have you into the opposing traffic on L.H. bends in civilised countrys ( ) or a tree in the teeth in ones that ride on the wrong ( right) side of the road . Luckily nothing was comeing the other way and I was going quitely and pulled up / wrenched round before knocking a hole in the Armco . Another sods vibrated down heading north at Tip Top Bend , on a Saint . Concrete centre barrier , his had been cut and welded to shorten . Luckilty he wasnt a good welder , and it broke in the lean duel .

Mainstands were scarce as ' Everybody ' threw them out , or put them in the shed , where they were threw out ,
As they were the FIRST thing to SCRAPE , the sidestand was next . so that went too , on Raceing Bikes .
And if they wernt there they couldnt fall of , and the bike weighed less . Judicous application of a 4 x 2 ,
boot , or :shock: crowbar / tyre lever ( the bigger Car ones criminals used ) positioning the exhausts ' closer ' was also not uncommon . . . Interste pipes sit way closer to the tarmac , leant over , than P.R. . But are better Skid Rails .

Also , left to right , angled into the traffic parked , the ' Sit ' required was differant . According to side of road driven on .
for the sidestand

Yeah what Matt says, regular C'do are almost as lean limited as a Harley with foot porches, until ya rub off the stands and mufflers. I suspect the washer welded on front tab is d/t the down tubes spread to far, so might consider assembled with adj iso mount installed then tack on a tube in the front bend area like later C'dos have. The corner formed by this cross tube is used in later frames to help back up the side stand lug. Its educational to stick a screw driver in the tab hole and pry a bit to see how the long tubes act like twisting torsion bars. Cross brace behind the front bend helps prevent that.

Thanks for all the great feedback guys, though I'm now wondering - what the hell have I done???
Investigation shows that:
One of the front downtubes looks like it's been replaced, maybe as a result of a stack. My guess is that's why it wears the Ceriani front end now.
The front isolastic mount holes are seriously obround - probably from not being ever set up right. The brazed-on washers are an attempt to sort this I s'pose.
The weld repair in the gusset looks like it covers a cut rather than a crack. Not sure why though.
Rest of it looks not too bad, but there were a couple of little dings that had been filled with bog! Can you believe it? Guess it's only cosmetic. Might Lead load them later.

John, I can't afford a new frame, I'm going to have to make the best of this. I think if it's tidied-up it'll be serviceable, but I'm kinda glad I've seen it at its worst so I can get to it before putting some miles on it. It did steer straight when I went hands-free at speed and the steering stops are all fine.

The sidestand thing has to go - it's just too hideous for words. Was thinking Matt about hacksawing instead of grinding for exactly the reasons you say. I'll see what can be done after that, but whatever - it will be something more elegant!

Thanks for the stand info LAB, did not know about the tank mount though - it has a separate bolt-on bracket, guess that's been made up by the DPO.

Cheers AC, just wish I'd started this way, would have saved so much heartache now. Hindsight is the only perfect science huh.

Roger that CF, been giving it a rub-down with emery to get the remaining paint off and looking at it very closely for cracks during the process.

Yep. right numbers Graeme, but I've replaced the crankcases (came with a thrown rod) so it's not really a matching numbers bike, although I do have the old cases and have had them welded, but there's an awful lot of work required to make them look acceptable again - something I doubt I'll ever get around to.

Hey Bel, it's a '70 according to the numbers. I will be taking yours and Matt's advice and checking dimensions. The gusset "repair" looks ok, could do with a little tidying up though. I'll think about the rattle can paint job. The parts I've just bought I've done on the plastic, so any other savings would be a good idea.

Thanks Hobot, I believe I have to modify the front iso to take the new vernier system anyway, so it will be the subject of much attention. I think later frames had another brace at the front yeah?

Fair bit of work ahead. Undecided on whether to junk the loom and do another one, switching over to neg ground in the process. Only took a week's worth of nights to do the last one, would be much easier this time around and soooo much easier during a bare-bones rebuild. Need a rect/reg though - meh, there must be squillions of single phase ones around.

Dave if you decide to go the rattle can paint route I've used White Night 'Rust Guard' epoxy enamel on painted fork legs and gauge cups on my A65 about 4 years ago now and it is one tough paint. Still not a mark! I've just bought some 'aluminium' (colour) to use on the Commando front guard stays and air filter front plate and it looks to be a good match. The good thing about it is that you don't need to prime it. 2 or 3 coats. Light sand between. I reckon you'd do a frame with 2 or 3 cans. Available from Bunnings.

A good used frame may be the way to go here, and may well work out cheaper than getting your damaged frame checked on a jig, and having the required repairs carried out?

Dave, Mark F is correct about the White Knight spray paint, it is easily good enough to paint a frame, cheap and very tough. Maybe your frame has had a chair at some time? Graeme

The frame can be repaired as long as you find all the nasties to repair. I have seen worse frames brought back from the dead than yours, so don't dispair just take your time and measure everything well. You now have a good opportunity to do the recommended upgrades, so that's a good thing, and it's better than mowing the lawn or watching tv. Graeme

Dunno on the chair Graeme, that'd be on the LHS yeah? Will have a bit of a look for any tell-tales. Thought the front RHS downtube had been cut-and-shut but no, it's just got some dings in it. An afternoon's hacksawing, grinding and filing saw a pile of nasty offcuts and a tidied-up frame.

Nasty bits gone.

Better, but looks like it needs a bit of metal let in in places. A couple of runs of weld might do it, but will this embrittle and compromise the strength?
I'm amazed at how light the frame is. Must be very thin walled metal. Impressive.

Looking good, i wounld'nt be worried about some extra welding, it 's allready had plenty, if its only cosmetic silver solder some "Bits" in, the temp required will not effect the metal, and its a strong job.

As far as Im aware , its Seamed Mild Steel Tube . as per Old Bicycles , ( and exhaust Tube ) 16 Guage .(cradle etc)

I would be intrested indeed to see evidance exactly as to the Spec.

A built a Duplex Loop frame from a donated Commando Frame that had hit a Mercedes backing onto the road as the nancy boy rideing it was looking over his shoulder at the OWNER rideing back from the Norton outfit on the Honda 50 theyd gone
to collect it on.

A case of valour not being the better part of discretion , unfortunately .

Chopped all the 1 in tube off of it , and visited H S white ( bicycle trade supply ) for more . Which matched , and fitted the above description .

Need a low amp Arc Welder if trying this game .

Nevertheless the Characteristics of the machine were as anticipated . pretty much Intended to get mandrel bent
1 1/4 Dia for a follow up to identical Layout .

SO , a proficent Arc Welder , though unnessesary , Other Than where a new strip say 30 mmm wide let in to seat gusset WHERE it abuts the Arc Weld AT the very front . Gas Welding would sufice for the weld runs , Ground Back .FLUSH .

I use 2 mm GAP , large ( No 8 or 10 ) tip , 2 . 5 mm ROD , and you can go fst , so less heat distribution OUTWARD .

Tack , realign with dolly & hammer . as you go ( Hammer Welding . as per old STEEL Rod Builders , roof chop / sectioning etc )QUECHING with Damp Rag ONCE colour is BELOW bright , RED .Give a degee ( slight) of Shrink . OTHERWISE it GROWS .a good ARC welder should EQUAL this . Low Temp. Eutectic Rods . Are Used .Alternately a Mig ( as per Orig ? ? ? )

Gap = Thicknes of material , PLUS an Iota .( not minus a anything )

The lower tube , A Quick Go Over with Sif Bronze will be more amenable than Material irregularity invoced by ' thickening ' tube WELDING . essentially just heating it red , whichll neutralise existing wodevas.i.e. Just a lick of braze ozer it , will be more than sufficent . Quench at BELOW bright red , will shrink to Orig Dimn. , a art here , the quench bit , Practise on old ( new) Ex Tube . Rodders or AIRCRAFT tube fuselage home built , Piper Cub Types are the same game .

Bring er up next weekend & a couple o Gas Bottles . Done in a jiffy , if the beers not opened till we've finished .