Slimline-bitza

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May 28, 2003
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My project will be a process done to my 63 Atlas rolling chassis. As shown The 18 rear wheel has been changed to 19 and the front brake has been changed to TLS commando. Partially styled as a 62 88SS with small tank and early style MCH61 headlight. Headlight will have speedo, oil pressure gauge, ampmeter and light switch. Rebuilt gearbox has commando shaft to accommodate a belt drive. Tail light will remain stock as the later 63+ style , to match the original fender.
I plan to rotate 3 engines through this frame for testing. Finally in a few years it will revert to the original matching # engine after a rebuild.
First is the 1959 88 done up partially as an 1962 SS.
Second will be my newly acquired 650SS. I extracted this engine almost 15 years ago from a commando as part of a club project for a member. It was sold off to another member. I recently acquired it from him.
Third will be my combat/atlas hot rod engine.
Slimline-bitza

Slimline-bitza
 
Re: bitza 88SS

SS head, new concentrics, era finned covers & manifolds. I'm going with a rear points distributor for Lucas Rita now and for the hot rod combat/atlas to have the custom adjustable tri-spark. Original usable mag sitting on the shelf. The SS tune call for a SS (not 2S) cam used from 88SS-650SS-atlas-all the way to 75 850 commando. Since it is NOT an uprated SS crank I don't feel a need to destroy it. Therefore I did retain the radiused lifters to truncate the overlap and hopefully hold back the engine a bit. In a full SS configuration this tiny motor would seem to be WAY hotter than a combat commando ever dreamed to be...potentially a 8000rpm engine ???
Well tested 3 start oil pump going to high pressure rockers. Std bore barrels and pistons...nothing exotic.
Crankshaft ground -.010" at Mile High Crankshaft Denver Co....nice looking job with proper looking radiused corners.
Timing side heavy duty 11 ball ECHUCA BRM 030 made in Australia, drive side USA made super heavy duty 14 roller Bower MA1308?
New red engine patent tag, the original was smashed and mashed. :mrgreen:
Slimline-bitza
 
Re: bitza 650SS

Nothing out of the ordinary....except not very common in the USA. You would think there are 50 Atlas for every one 650SS.
This is a 1963 engine that I removed from a commando. You can see the .220" thick commando adaptor ring hanging on the crank. I have no idea who originally installed this engine into a commando, but it had high pressure plumbing BUT scrolled rockers :?: :?: :?:
I will mod it into a proper HP system as part of a complete tear down and inspection.
You can still see the rear points housing off the commando. The commando project was returned to original 20M3S configuration, so 650 distributor was no longer needed for the commando and will go on the 88SS.
All my stand alone engines on display use my design of stand legs. I must have made well over 2 dozen. Even a few local club guys wanted to buy them. Simple, strong, easy to use and work very well.
Slimline-bitza
 
Looks like fun! Would a 650 revving to 8K make as much power as a 750 revving to 7K?
 
Re: Slimline-750 combat

1965 atlas engine.
Head: No spigot likely from a late hybrid since it has 3/8" head bolts. (thanks P-11 forum guys) Will probably get a 30mm port job.
Barrels: NOS std bore of course commando...3/8 bolts
Cam: Norvil STEEL (none of that chilled iron garbage for me) 2S combat on a twin chain core. I tweeked the ramps to recalibrate out the funny combat/4S style bumps.
process: http://atlanticgreen.com/images/camgrind.jpg
results: http://atlanticgreen.com/images/cam120rw.gif
Carbs: On the head are the original style 1" long 30/28.5mm manifolds.
On the left are the 34mm MKII carbs and below are the 34/30mm stubs. Then the KZ900 K%N filter for that setup.
To the right are the 1.5" long 32/30mm manifolds for regular 32mm concentrics.These are similar to the ones on my dunstall atlas.
On the right is the RGM sourced (20 years ago) purpose built Lucas Rita distributor. Probably will go on the 88 first.
Pistons 1: On the left is one of 3 sets of GPM 11:1? std bore 263/265gms. Around $65 a set from Old Brits 15 years ago. These are visual clones to the ones in my original Dunstall except for the # on the inside.
Pistons 2: 2 sets of Teikoku std 11:1 ...250gms with a fair amount of removable/lightening possible on the inside. I don't thinks these are junk!!!
Pistons 3: reference... stock dished atlas pistons are 218.5gms
I have long been a proponent of light mass to help tame frame resonance. Jim Schmidt and I have discussed this long before he came out with his light weight stuff. I generally support and agree with his efforts. :mrgreen:
This frame vibration resonance research is a very strong motivation for this progressive engine/chassis project.
The engine sits on my nickle plated "show" engine stand with the black plastic tube finishing plugs. :lol:
Slimline-bitza
 
So, Dave, which motor are you putting the Fullauto Technologies head on and when can we see the results?
 
Now THIS willl be an interesting project to follow!

Very cool stuff, and nice to have a proper shop.
 
Re: off topic

post by Danno » 09 Jul 2017, 19:28
Looks like fun! Would a 650 revving to 8K make as much power as a 750 revving to 7K?

dd
When you try it, let us know. The 650 rods and crank are basically the same as 750 so it would likely blow up eventually at 8000rpm.


post by Fullauto » 11 Jul 2017, 01:58
So, Dave, which motor are you putting the Fullauto Technologies head on and when can we see the results?

dd
for the last 15 years I have kept 4 classic bikes registered and insured though not necessarily runable.

1. BSA 650 pre unit 61 Gold flash currently off road for maintenance, with 2 other alternates 63 SR 62 RGS

2. Norton garden gate 52 M7, currently off road for rod knock..51 M7 basket

3. featherbed 63 atlas off road for rod knock, 66 basket,66 hotrod basket,68 dunstall waiting for E-10 proof tank. 650ss(engine here) plus 5th FB bitza/basket coming eventually.

4. commando... My favorite 72combat is off road for a broken intake valve spring. 9 more regular commando baskets. One MKIII currently runable with 3 more MKIII baskets. The combat & MKIII take turns having the commando plate.

I am hoping to have the 88 at the INOA/VA rally this week end. running or not..I will work on it all week at the rally if I have to. I will be using my new valve remover tool for the first time, probably tomorrow, to check the 88 head before I pop it on the block and then the engine in the frame on thursday.

NEXT back from the rally.

FA head #99 is a 750 head and will go on 202206. I believe the combat head had a very bad outcome and almost any 28.5mm commando head is better. The combat engine will be after the slimline/88 is running.
I still have to do production since I hate to piss off my vendors who are selling my products. Sound familiar?

Unfortunately my toys take back seat. In general except for my MKIII all my classic bikes have been off road for 5+ years and I am only now able to start doing a little work on them.
 
Re: off topic

dynodave said:
...except for my MKIII all my classic bikes have been off road for 5+ years and I am only now able to start doing a little work on them.
Man, do I know the feeling! Of the 29 bikes I presently own, only a handful are ready to ride, and only two are insured and registered at the moment.

Talk about stale gas, flat tires and dead batteries!
 
Re: off topic

dynodave said:
post by Danno » 09 Jul 2017, 19:28
Looks like fun! Would a 650 revving to 8K make as much power as a 750 revving to 7K?

dd
When you try it, let us know. The 650 rods and crank are basically the same as 750 so it would likely blow up eventually at 8000rpm.

Never really heard of one until you mentioned the possibility;

SS head, new concentrics, era finned covers & manifolds. I'm going with a rear points distributor for Lucas Rita now and for the hot rod combat/atlas to have the custom adjustable tri-spark. Original usable mag sitting on the shelf. The SS tune call for a SS (not 2S) cam used from 88SS-650SS-atlas-all the way to 75 850 commando. Since it is NOT an uprated SS crank I don't feel a need to destroy it. Therefore I did retain the radiused lifters to truncate the overlap and hopefully hold back the engine a bit. In a full SS configuration this tiny motor would seem to be WAY hotter than a combat commando ever dreamed to be...potentially a 8000rpm engine ???
 
Re: way off topic

Danno said:
Never really heard of one until you mentioned the possibility;

become educated.(if you are actually interested in Norton's :?: )..google: norton 88ss
The norton 500's are shown in EVERY norton twin glossy coffee table book that I have looked at.. I have 3 Bacon books and the 88 is in every one.
However they do precede the 1968 USA Commando explosion.
 
Re" Head: No spigot likely from a late hybrid since it has 3/8" head bolts. (thanks P-11 forum guys) Will probably get a 30mm port job."

DO NOT OPEN THE PORTS OUT TO 30mm :!:

I strongly advise you to take heed of this advice, ignore it at your peril :(
 
Re: way off topic

dynodave said:
Danno said:
Never really heard of one until you mentioned the possibility;

become educated.(if you are actually interested in Norton's :?: )..google: norton 88ss
The norton 500's are shown in EVERY norton twin glossy coffee table book that I have looked at.. I have 3 Bacon books and the 88 is in every one.
However they do precede the 1968 USA Commando explosion.

So the 500 cc 88ss turned 8,000 rpm? My poor education never covered that. My inquiry was about a 650 turning 8,000 rpm.

I think there's some confusion here. Never said anything about an 88SS, I was referring to your post about the hotrodded 650 engine where you said it had possible 8K RPM potential. I said it sounded like fun and asked a ? about the power potential. Then you said I should try it because it would blow up. All of a sudden the topic changed to my ignorance at the existence of the 88SS. Sorry to disappoint you, but the older models are not unknown to me, although I'm no expert, never having owned one.
 
Re: way off topic

Danno said:
snip
Never said anything about an 88SS, I was referring to your post about the hotrodded 650 engine where you said it had possible 8K RPM potential.
snip


show me in MY POST ( bitza:650SS) where I SAID.....
I'll accept an apology, otherwise don't come back
 
Re: Slimline-750 combat

dynodave said:
1965 atlas engine.
Head: No spigot likely from a late hybrid since it has 3/8" head bolts. (thanks P-11 forum guys) Will probably get a 30mm port job.
SNIP

Bernhard said:
Re" Head: No spigot likely from a late hybrid since it has 3/8" head bolts. (thanks P-11 forum guys) Will probably get a 30mm port job."

DO NOT OPEN THE PORTS OUT TO 30mm :!:
I strongly advise you to take heed of this advice, ignore it at your peril :(

Let me post a few questions and facts to see where you're coming from.

1. All the OEM atlas manifolds I own, are already 28.75mm for 30 mm carbs.
2. Almost all 72-73 750 (yes commando) have 32 mm ports RH3-RH5-RH6 heads would you suggest strongly they all be returned to RH1 configuration?
3. Would you categorically advise against a full auto head for 750 application? My FA#99 shows 32.2mm at the port. This is the head to go on my combat

Having worked professionally in the industrial flow industry from 1990-1997 as a field service engineer, I base my theory on the following flow principle.
4 to 1 taper is absolute minimum for low turbulence transition (but not considered ideal).
10-1 taper is considered minimum for smooth transition.
1.25mm (including the stock manifold is already 3/4mm) to 48mm, taper within the head, port to guide, is 38-1.
I would likely need more science to stop the project.
FWIW my version, would be significantly milder than my 68 Dunstall (built & sold) Norton Atlas
 
Re: bitza 88SS

dynodave said:
SS head, new concentrics, era finned covers & manifolds. I'm going with a rear points distributor for Lucas Rita now and for the hot rod combat/atlas to have the custom adjustable tri-spark. Original usable mag sitting on the shelf. The SS tune call for a SS (not 2S) cam used from 88SS-650SS-atlas-all the way to 75 850 commando. Since it is NOT an uprated SS crank I don't feel a need to destroy it. Therefore I did retain the radiused lifters to truncate the overlap and hopefully hold back the engine a bit. In a full SS configuration this tiny motor would seem to be WAY hotter than a combat commando ever dreamed to be...potentially a 8000rpm engine ???
Well tested 3 start oil pump going to high pressure rockers. Std bore barrels and pistons...nothing exotic.
Crankshaft ground -.010" at Mile High Crankshaft Denver Co....nice looking job with proper looking radiused corners.
Timing side heavy duty 11 ball ECHUCA BRM 030 made in Australia, drive side USA made super heavy duty 14 roller Bower MA1308?
New red engine patent tag, the original was smashed and mashed. :mrgreen:
Slimline-bitza

^

I quoted your post about the 8,000 rpm engine 3 times and you still act as if the idea came from me.
 
Re: way off topic

dynodave said:
Danno said:
snip
Never said anything about an 88SS, I was referring to your post about the hotrodded 650 engine where you said it had possible 8K RPM potential.
snip


show me in MY POST ( bitza:650SS) where I SAID.....
I'll accept an apology, otherwise don't come back

I'm sorry you can't remember or can't read what you posted. I won't be back.
 
Re: way off topic

Danno said:
dynodave said:
Danno said:
snip
Never said anything about an 88SS, I was referring to your post about the hotrodded 650 engine where you said it had possible 8K RPM potential.
snip


show me in MY POST ( bitza:650SS) where I SAID.....
I'll accept an apology, otherwise don't come back

I'm sorry you can't remember or can't read what you posted. I won't be back.

Not only do I remember WHAT I posted, I remember WHERE i posted. show me in MY POST ( bitza:650SS) where I SAID.....then like a moron you quote the 88SS page....650 page makes NO mention of 8000 RPM-
good bye - good riddance
I prefer to have discussions with people with at least 2 brain cells. You don't qualify
 
Dave
As a bystander to this overheated discussion, I must point out in Danno's defence that you did, in your second post in this thread, state that...

In a full SS configuration this tiny motor would seem to be WAY hotter than a combat commando ever dreamed to be...potentially a 8000rpm engine ???

It's not really that important - but I think you owe him an apology. We should be getting on with riding Nortons and helping each other - not this crap!
Cheers
Rob
 
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