simple question - 74 Mk2 - kickstart, pedal and lever - spring-washer/washer

can't verify if i have an original configuration.

i'm taking my kick start lever apart, and notice my spring washer is broken, I also have two 3/8" washers, one above and one below the (broken) spring-washer, of which only one washer is shown on the parts drawing with no spring washer. the Mk3 shows a spring washer and one washer. is the spring-washer missing from the 73-74 parts diagram, and not sure why I have two washers. it should be configured as the 75 Mk3 - ???

Not an answer to your question but can I recommend the Triumph style folding kick start which is sold by RGM and i think New York Norton. I have found it a very good modification.

For decades I rode round with the kick start digging me in the back of my leg. And now it folds away very nicely


This is the RGM which I have and it fits a Mk 2 with standard footrests.

You would need to check with Kenny if his one fits standard pegs

joe czech said:

i'm taking my kick start lever apart, and notice my spring washer is broken, I also have two 3/8" washers, one above and one below the (broken) spring-washer, of which only one washer is shown on the parts drawing with no spring washer. the Mk3 shows a spring washer and one washer. is the spring-washer missing from the 73-74 parts diagram, and not sure why I have two washers. it should be configured as the 75 Mk3 - ???

Click to expand...

The original Mk2A and Mk3 lever assemblies were not identical as the Mk2A lever didn't have the ball and spring (14 & 15).

The Mk2A kickstart assembly was 064249.
Mk3 was 12-1018.

A Mk2 would have had the standard 064164 kickstart lever assembly.
"750" and 850 Mk1 & 2.

thanks LAB - I definitely have a Mk2 assembly, so back to my original question - spring-washer - ??? - and how many washers - ??? parts diagram is a bit confusing.

joe czech said:

so back to my original question - spring-washer - ??? - and how many washers - ??? parts diagram is a bit confusing.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure as I don't have one of those kickstart assemblies but the parts diagram shows the spring washer (32) below the pedal.

As the washers are there to prevent the pedal arm from swinging out then fit flat or spring washers 'as required'.

L.A.B. said:

I'm not sure as I don't have one of those kickstart assemblies but the parts diagram shows the spring washer (32) below the pedal.

Andover Norton Parts Drawings - Genuine Andover Norton Factory Parts - Commando Parts

Andover Norton Parts are the only Norton spare parts in the market manufactured to original drawings, within the factory-approved tolerances, from the correct materials, and with the correct finish.

andover-norton.co.uk

As the washers are there to prevent the pedal arm from swinging out then fit flat or spring washers 'as required'.

Click to expand...

bingo - that's exactly what I need - big thanks!

update - fixed my floppy pedal assembly. varied a little from the factory - reversed the plain washer and spring washer orientation - mostly due to the stainless spring washer size availability. used a 1/2 inch, stainless, plain washer (.515 ID, .875 OD, McMaster-Carr p/n 98017a210) below the pedal assembly, and two (2) "Belleville" stainless, spring washers (.380 ID, .750 OD, MC p/n 9713k68) above the pedal in an inverted stack position. ran the acorn trim nut down by hand until it made contact with the spring washers, then gave the nut another 1/3-1/2 turn with a wrench. a light lube on the pivot-contact areas and blue thread locker on the trim nut. easy movement, plenty of spring force holding the pedal firm. all is good....

Thanks Joe. Can you describe what you mean by 'inverted stack'.

Spring washer below pedal. Used a SS washer above. Fits tight but still pivots.

Saber said:

Thanks Joe. Can you describe what you mean by 'inverted stack'.

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the spring washers have a slight cone or concave shape - inverted stack means the "cones" are stacked, in opposite direction to each other, if they were just stacked, they would be oriented the same.

myron1950 said:

Spring washer below pedal. Used a SS washer above. Fits tight but still pivots.View attachment 17886

Click to expand...

that's pretty much how the factory assembled the thing. my problem, I couldn't find 1/2" spring washers with the proper ID/OD, so went with the smaller 3/8" and flipped the position. by doubling up and inverting the spring washers, I doubled the spring force, and doubled the compression range without collapsing the washers. my original spring washer cracked and failed due to (previous) overtightening of the trim nut. as a bonus, now, everything is stainless.

A 10mm wave washer on top and a 10mm or 3/8" AN plain washer under the pedal. I like the acorn nut nice and tight, but most of the time the pedal will bind before I get the feel I like. The solution, if too loose, select a thicker washer; I do have hundreds with varying thickness', however, in my experience binding occurs more often. I take the acorn nut chuck in my lathe and turn it down, in stages, until I get the right combination of pedal movement and the thightnes of the acorn nut I like. I also recommend polishing the bottom of the acorn's hex and chamfering the sides of the hex so as not to prematurely destroy the wave or spring washer; grease the pivot and the pedal surfaces that contact the washers.

Yes, it takes me years to do a build...

Best.

You will find after a while those washers will return to the inverted shape you found them. You are better of using heavy duty high tensile washers under the nut only. Its probably even better to have a special one made that is machined to take up the wear, so that when it is tightened, it is snug against the pedal. If its tight, it still wont stop it vibrating out though and will tend to stay out. Very Slightly loose is better as it wont vibrate out so much. The ball and spring seems a better option. All the old ones have worn tapered etc as a result of the flogging they are subjected to while driving. I just put up with mine as it still works well. The splines on the lever always wear as well because the bolt that clamps it to the splines , does not engage in the groove on the shaft. You need a 2 foot long bar to tighten that bolt as well [ but only if you have a very high tensile automotive style bolt.] I modified both my two commando's kick starts to prevent them coming loose on the splines. Woks well but once a year or so I make sure they are still dead tight.
Dereck

The true test is to start out on a ride with the kickstart folded in. If it has swung out by the time you stop, then it isn't tight enough.

batrider said:

The true test is to start out on a ride with the kickstart folded in. If it has swung out by the time you stop, then it isn't tight enough.

Click to expand...

FWIW - 40 mile run the other day and no noticeable movement with the 2-spring washer configuration.

one thing to mention - spring washers have a "sweet spot" when compressed - usually the 50% point of the washer's height. easy to calculate how far to tighten the trim nut by threads per inch and old school math - in this case 24 tpi. secure the trim nut with a little (blue) thread locker and you should be good to go. compressing the spring washer flat, kind of defeats it's purpose. just my 2-cents....