Red hot case

blacklav · Sep 27, 2011

Ive just been out on my MK11a ,about 80 miles. On checking it over back home I noticed that the timing side case was very hot. Hotter than the oil in the tank. I could`nt put my hand on it.
Is this normal . The bike runs OK apart from a little smoke when revved up and the left side compression is lower than the right.
I plan to remove the head to check the ol seals on the valves and the rings, but i was`nt expecting any problems with the timing side.
Could it be caused by the hot compressed air bypassing the leftside piston and being blown into the timing case?
Its worrying when its hotter than the oil.

Any help please.
Chris r

ILLF8ED · Sep 27, 2011

This is not normal. Without doing a tear down, hard to say what is the cause. Other than what you mention, the heat could be coming from friction such as a bad bearing, bush..etc. Under normal conditions the engine cases are hot to the touch, but not as hot as the exhaust and should not be hotter than the oil. If the timing side is noticably hotter than the drive side, something is wrong.

blacklav · Sep 27, 2011

Oh dear, not what i wanted to hear but i feared the worse. Strange though that the engine is`nt noisy or hard to turn over when not running.
Thanks anyway.
Chris r

westernjesus · Sep 27, 2011

Hmnn.. There isn't much in there to cause heat like are are talking about. If memory serves me correctly, there is a shaft that rests in a bushing built into the case. Maybe that bushing gave it up and causing lots of friction and dissipating heat across whole cover. the timing chain also rests on a curved tensioner thing. Maybe that has worn, or worse, come loose and is allowing the timing chain to drop down and rub the case. Unlikely, but I would hate to hear of anyone losing a timing chain whilst the motor is still running.
The first thing I would suggest which is the easiest, is to pull the magnetic oil plug and see if you have lots of metal shavings on it. If so, something in there is failing.

kraakevik · Sep 27, 2011

The left-hand crankcase may in fact may be just as hot as the timing side, but harder to assess with the primary drive masking and dissipating heat.

In my experience after a long run the cases are considerably hotter than the oil--not red hot but too warm to keep your bare hand on--and will be warm long after the bulk-oil temperature has dropped.

There's only about five pounds of oil circulating--with relatively poor heat-transfer characteristics--through about ninety pounds of engine. The bulk-oil temperature must always be much lower than the average engine temperature in order to cool things enough for sustained operation

Tim Kraakevik
kraakevik@voyager.net

rpatton · Sep 27, 2011

blacklav said:
Ive just been out on my MK11a ,about 80 miles. On checking it over back home I noticed that the timing side case was very hot. Hotter than the oil in the tank. I could`nt put my hand on it.

Chris r

What was the ambient temp during your ride? I've got an oilfilter under the seat and I can lay my hand on it when I can't do the same on the timing cover, the oil tank would only be cooler still. Lean carbs or retarded timing make a motor run hot, but so does enthusiastic riding or a lot of stop and go before you get home. I've had the timing cover hot enough to sizzle spit without anything wrong.

cash · Sep 28, 2011

rpatton said:
blacklav said:

Ive just been out on my MK11a ,about 80 miles. On checking it over back home I noticed that the timing side case was very hot. Hotter than the oil in the tank. I could`nt put my hand on it.

Chris r

Click to expand...

What was the ambient temp during your ride? I've got an oilfilter under the seat and I can lay my hand on it when I can't do the same on the timing cover, the oil tank would only be cooler still. Lean carbs or retarded timing make a motor run hot, but so does enthusiastic riding or a lot of stop and go before you get home. I've had the timing cover hot enough to sizzle spit without anything wrong.

Agree, don't worry.

Cash

blacklav · Oct 3, 2011

Phew, thats a relief.
Mine has an oil filter also and that does`nt get as hot as the timing case.
I removed the magnetic plug, no signs of any debris so thats a relief.
I thought it might be a blocked breather, but thats ok.
As you say it was a hot day and i run it at 3 to 4000 rpm except for the last 2 miles when i hit the town traffic, which heats things up a bit.
So it sounds like normal. I will keep an eye on it though just in case.
Many thanks to all.
Chris r

swooshdave · Oct 3, 2011

blacklav said:
Phew, thats a relief.
Mine has an oil filter also and that does`nt get as hot as the timing case.
I removed the magnetic plug, no signs of any debris so thats a relief.
I thought it might be a blocked breather, but thats ok.
As you say it was a hot day and i run it at 3 to 4000 rpm except for the last 2 miles when i hit the town traffic, which heats things up a bit.
So it sounds like normal. I will keep an eye on it though just in case.
Many thanks to all.
Chris r

It obviously wasn't red hot. Remember these are air cooled machines and if there isn't air moving over them they ain't getting cooled. Since you didn't say where in the world you are can we assume that if it's still warm it's still humid too?

Keep an eye on it but don't fret yet.

Hobot · Oct 3, 2011

Duh, maybe just maybe its just the exhaust heat of header so darn close to the points cover.

DogT · Oct 3, 2011

My headers are no where close to the points cover and there is no way I can reach down and keep my hand on the timing side cover, or the drive side for that matter. All that means is it's hotter than 120°F. I wouldn't call it red hot.

Then there's red hot women and ice cold beer, or is that ice cold women and red hot beer, I always get it mixed up.

Dave
69S

Hobot · Oct 4, 2011

Human research shows most people find shower water not too hot till 143'F and hands can stand a bit more generally. Would be educational to get a IR-laser aim temp reader and get some baselines to go by. Being a big hunk of Al engine its hard to conceive feeling one part of cover hotter than any other unless directly heated by something near by. There's plenty of oil spray going around the TS case so would think that would even up temps even more. Just a guess on the header as my Combat's passes within 3/8" after some prying it away best I could. Hope its nothing but if it is we are all ears on why.

blacklav · Oct 4, 2011

Now i`m confused, A value of max temp on the timing case would be great , but i have no means of finding this out.
The case is about the same temp as the crankcase at the bottom. you can just about put your hand on it for 2 seconds, were as if you touch the barrels your skin would stick to it ( i know). The primary is much cooler but this is belt drive.
I guess as its not making any noise and there`s no sign of swarf in the oil, then its just me.
You get a bit spoilt on modern bikes and this is only my second Norton, 32 years apart.
Chris r

L.A.B. · Oct 4, 2011

blacklav said:
A value of max temp on the timing case would be great , but i have no means of finding this out.

Stick thermal indicator strips to the case. They show maximum temperature.

http://www.raceparts.co.uk/products/bra ... +paint+kit

rpatton · Oct 4, 2011

This is from Alan Goldwater.
http://www.nortonclub.com/docs/OilTemp.pdf

Around here where I ride if the temperature gets over 70F they think it's a heatwave. If I lived someplace with temps near 100F then I'd probably put on an oilcooler w/thermostat, if for no other reason than just knowing I've done what I can with an aircooled bigbore twin.

Fullauto · Oct 4, 2011

I ran my 850 in the Pilbara region of Western Australia over a couple of summers and had no issues running it in temperatures of up to 49 deg C or somewhere around 120F. I'd thought about fitting an oil cooler but the evidence just wasn't there to warrant it.

rvich · Oct 4, 2011

Fullauto said:
I ran my 850 in the Pilbara region of Western Australia over a couple of summers and had no issues running it in temperatures of up to 49 deg C or somewhere around 120F. I'd thought about fitting an oil cooler but the evidence just wasn't there to warrant it.

What did you do to keep the rider from dying?

Fullauto · Oct 5, 2011

rvich said:
Fullauto said:

I ran my 850 in the Pilbara region of Western Australia over a couple of summers and had no issues running it in temperatures of up to 49 deg C or somewhere around 120F. I'd thought about fitting an oil cooler but the evidence just wasn't there to warrant it.

Click to expand...

What did you do to keep the rider from dying?

You get used to it. Drink lots of fluids.

rvich · Oct 5, 2011

Fullauto said:
rvich said:

Fullauto said:

I ran my 850 in the Pilbara region of Western Australia over a couple of summers and had no issues running it in temperatures of up to 49 deg C or somewhere around 120F. I'd thought about fitting an oil cooler but the evidence just wasn't there to warrant it.

Click to expand...

What did you do to keep the rider from dying?

Click to expand...

You get used to it. Drink lots of fluids.

The Mexicans have invented a personal climate control device...it's called Tequila. It doesn't work on Commandos.

cash · Oct 5, 2011

The Mexicans have invented a personal climate control device...it's called Tequila. It doesn't work on Commandos.

I know it plays havoc with fibreglass tanks and other stuff. It is that stuff they put in petrol isn't it?

Cash

Red hot case

blacklav

ILLF8ED

blacklav

westernjesus

kraakevik

rpatton

cash

blacklav

swooshdave

Hobot

DogT

Hobot

blacklav

L.A.B.

Moderator

rpatton

Fullauto

rvich

Fullauto

rvich

cash

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