Recent acquisition - possible Dunstall?

Hi -

New to the forum, as well as Norton's in general. Since I was a little kid I've wanted a Commando. Well, last night I finally made it happen and
bought a 72. It was advertised as a 'possible' Dunstall Commando. Is there a definitive way to tell if it's a Dunstall vs. a factory Commando?

In the UK the V5 (equivalent to US Title) would have the manufacturer as Dunstall. Most are not true Dunstalls but standard Nortons with Dunstall parts.

Shooting in the dark...I have some production record copies. In ‘72 these were shipped to “Paul Dunstall”.
200375, 205889, 205925, 205927, 205931, 205933, 205934, 205939

dggggggggg said:

Hi -

New to the forum, as well as Norton's in general. Since I was a little kid I've wanted a Commando. Well, last night I finally made it happen and
bought a 72. It was advertised as a 'possible' Dunstall Commando. Is there a definitive way to tell if it's a Dunstall vs. a factory Commando?

Click to expand...

Pictures ?

"Most are not true Dunstalls but standard Nortons with Dunstall parts."

And therefore are not nearly as reliable as a Norton with its original parts!

thanks everyone. I tried posting a photo - but looks like I need to use Imgur.
not sure I'm interested in keeping all the dunstall parts.

Wasn't Paul Dunstall allowed to stamp his own mark on the chassis in the UK?

dggggggggg said:

Hi -

New to the forum, as well as Norton's in general. Since I was a little kid I've wanted a Commando. Well, last night I finally made it happen and
bought a 72. It was advertised as a 'possible' Dunstall Commando. Is there a definitive way to tell if it's a Dunstall vs. a factory Commando?

Click to expand...

Hi, Welcome.
I too, was transfixed since the first time I saw the "Snortin' Norton" thunder past the house when I was 10yo.

dggggggggg said:

Is there a definitive way to tell if it's a Dunstall vs. a factory Commando?

Click to expand...

@kommando gave the correct answer. Original title will have "Dunstall" listed as Make / Manufacturer.

@illf8ed gave a great hint at a batch of true Dunstalls. If your serial number is very close to one of those listed, it COULD (POSSIBLY) be one also. The original paperwork stating "Dustall" is a must, to confirm it.

dggggggggg said:

Dunstall vs. a factory Commando?

Click to expand...

The story goes AFAIK:
In 1967 Dunstall applied to inland revenue as a "manufactrurer" to politically qualify for "stock" catagory racing by the sanctioning body. A minimum amount of production for homoligation was required. It obviously succeeded to the angst of norton "stock/production" racers. The racing sanctioning bodies grandfathered this for one year 1968.
Protests stopped this Dunstall qualification for racing as "Dunstall" as stock/factory
My 68 Dunstall atlas may or may not qualifiy as Dunstall manufacturer, though NOC verified it was a Dunstall modified and delivered bike. I know the history of my bike back to the original purchaser from Dunstall dealership by a US military serviceman then imported to the USA.
Dunstall atlas

I would doubt any commando is other than "norton manufacture", with a possible endorsement as Dunstall shop modified then delivered as new.
Further there were many USA dealers selling parts. I had many dunstall parts on my first 1970 commado roadster. I bought the bike at the norton dealer in Hamden Connecticut. I bought all the dunstall parts at the Syracuse NY dealer. It was not a dunstall.
Knowing the sloppy US states registration laws that one can easily "convert" a norton to dunstall on paper. A Dunstall dealer modified bike imported to the US fails to in fact make it a dunstall manufactured bike.
In this case fraud is your friend for enhanced $ or bragging rights
A state title for a commando as a dunstall is as valuable as brown toilet paper.
The only valuable paper, to me, might be the original invoice from the dunstall shop showing VIN/SN purchase. More so than the title.

If you decide you don’t want the Dunstall stuff let me know.

Can't remember what year it was, but the DOT Department of Transport approved Dunstall as a bike manufacturer. One has to remember that he sold loads of fibreglass parts from his extensive catalogue, anyone could convert their Norton to a "Dunstall "

Bernhard said:

Can't remember what year it was, but the DOT Department of Transport approved Dunstall as a bike manufacturer. One has to remember that he sold loads of fibreglass parts from his extensive catalogue, anyone could convert their Norton to a "Dunstall "

Click to expand...

Some references to 66 maybe early process for the 67 model year? Any back up for DOT reference? I'doubt it was an easy process to become a manufacturer.

Legally who would get sued in court over Dunstall add ons that you installed? In court could you prove the motorcycle was legally a Norton origin or Dunstall?

Dunstall UK

Dunstall brand bought by Burton Bike Bits in 82

Dunstall wiki
notice the vast majority of submissions are by magazines credibility ? huh?

Almost my bike but later dual disc front end

How many folks can show legal USA govt import papers "Certificate of origin" showing "Dunstall" rather than "Norton" as the manufacturer? just curious...

kommando said:

In the UK the V5 (equivalent to US Title) would have the manufacturer as Dunstall. Most are not true Dunstalls but standard Nortons with Dunstall parts.

Click to expand...

grandpaul said:

@kommando gave the correct answer. Original title will have "Dunstall" listed as Make / Manufacturer.

Click to expand...

Therefore V5 and any of the USA 50 state titles equally bogus.

bo·gus
/ˈbōɡəs/

adjective
adjective: bogus

1. not genuine or true; fake.

dynodave said:

.........
The only valuable paper, to me, might be the original invoice from the dunstall shop showing VIN/SN purchase. More so than the title.

Click to expand...

FYI, this red Dunstall when sold by me had that Dunstall paper, probably have a scan or photo of it somewhere

Like the others I expect it was a standard Commando with a few or lots of Dunstall goodies.
Whatever the case, welcome to the forum.
There is a lifetime of Norton information here and people more than willing to help.
John in Texas

dynodave said:

Therefore V5 and any of the USA 50 state titles equally bogus.

bo·gus
/ˈbōɡəs/

adjective
adjective: bogus

1. not genuine or true; fake.

Click to expand...

No, they would be equally LEGITIMATE as ONLY pertains to CERTAIN bikes that began life being delivered directly from Norton to Dunstall, whereupon they were converted to cafe/racers THEN were delivered to the first owners to ride them; hence, "Dunstall" Nortons.

Any other dealership could take delivery of new Commandos, install the EXACT SAME selection of parts purchased directly from the Dunstall shop, and those bikes would NOT be "Dunstall" Nortons, but Nortons (on the titles, and V5s), with Dunstall parts installed. There IS a difference, THAT difference is the subject of this thread in particular.

I never claimed anyone but Norton built the basic Commando. Only that SOME titles list Dunstall as the manufacturer. THOSE are ACTUAL "Dunstall" Commandos. Nothing "bogus" about THOSE PARTICULAR bikes, per the title/V5.

Make one wonder of the legality of a bike rewoked by dynodave then sold and branded as a "dynodave" or any joe blow building a "triton"?
Did Dunstall have government authority /registration to be a Dunstall for a short time? How long did it really last? Did it last into the commando era?
Dunstall sold "stuff" until 1982 but does tha mean complete legally branded motor vehicles. Or was he selling "Nortons" albeit modified in his shop and slap a sticker on it?
Kind of make it open season to start replicating bogus Dunstalls...how many tanks seats fenders fairings do you want?? I have all the molds or pieces to copy. exhausts, dual discs, rear sets. Commando and featherbed'
I wonder if Burton bike bits would care?

"1967 Having already made his name racing Norton twins, from preparation work, tuning and modifications, Paul Dunstall was, by that year, a registered manufacturer."
"In 1966 Dunstall Motorcycles became a motorcycle manufacturer in its own right so that Dunstalls could compete in production races and the Auto-Cycle Union, which is the governing body for motorcycle racing in Britain, approved Dunstall Dominators as a marque for the production race in the 1967 Isle of Man TT."