Rear brake drum woes

Hello all I just replaced my rear drum (andover )and installed new shoes (ferodo) I cleaned everything and greased what I should and put it all back together. I can't seem to get the rub out in couple of spots and when axel bolts are torqued to 80 ft lbs wheel will not really turn.What have I done wrong ??? I tried holding brake on while tightening ,took it all apart and still no go .HELP PLEASE !!!
Craig

Same thing happened to me. The replacement shoes are just a hair too thick. If you can loosen things up, spin the wheels until everything breaks in.

I put up with an ineffective rear brake for years on my 72. I tried new linings, lubing pivots and cam. Finally, sent the works to Vintage Brake. Never knew a Norton rear drum could work so well. Unless you have access to the equipment and knowledge of Michael Morris, you are wasting your time and money, IMO.

You could try opening up the hole in the brake cover plate. Sometimes that doesn't let the brakes center while tightening. I also tighten up the shoes with the adjuster nut on the end of the cable before tightening the axle. A nut driver really helps there. I also found it seems to help if you put the tight spot to the front while tightening, don't know why, but it seemed to help.

If you can get some real thin sandpaper glued to the drum and sand down the shoes until they mold themselves to the drum better, but I've tried and I can't get enough clearance to put the sandpaper on. With the front shoes you can remove the clips to gain some clearance, but the rear shoes don't have that part.

You may be able to take the rear wheel set to a shop that can turn down the shoes on a lathe to make them more round.

I'm sure vintage brakes does a fine job too.

Thanks to all for the replies I will try DogT suggestions as I have always been able to muddle through the trials and tribulations of Norton ownership without paying the man so to speak.I save all extra repair money for the Duc Guy. DogT any suggestion why wheel will not turn when axel bolts tightened down to 80 ft lbs??? Also chain rubbing on my first ever chain guard chrome (Andover) could the Hagons have anything to do with this?
Thanks for your time
Craig

Craig said:

DogT any suggestion why wheel will not turn when axel bolts tightened down to 80 ft lbs??? Also chain rubbing on my first ever chain guard chrome (Andover) could the Hagons have anything to do with this?
Thanks for your time
Craig

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If your wheel binds and won't turn when tightening the axle, something is binding and you need to sort it out. Hard to do from here. Suggest taking off the speedo gearbox and see if that helps. You should be able to put all the spacers on and tighten down the axle without putting the wheel on the swing arm and the axle should turn freely. Use a thin washer or nuts to take up the space. Are you tightening the dummy axle first and then the long (timing side)? The wheel should turn no matter how much you tighten the axle because the axle should be tightening on the hub spacer, not the hub. Check brake parts. Like I said open up the brake cover plate hole. Install things without the shoes to see if they're the problem. Have you recently painted or powder coated? That will mess up the clearances. Have you recently replaced wheel bearings or worked on it? Sometimes you just have to fiddle with everything and tighten up things one at a time and see what is binding. Have you got all the spacers in correct, I'm assuming you have the bearing in the drum (71 up)? That little bearing is always a problem from what I've heard. Make sure it's seated correctly.

As far as the chainguard, everything there is very close. New shocks could be the issue. Does the shock push the chairguard in? Can you put a washer under the inner shock bottom nut against the outer side of the swing arm to shim it out a bit?



PM me if you like. I'm sure we can sort this.

I think that you should try about 1/2 of the applied torque and see if it still binds. The only bolts that I use that much torque on are engine mounts.
Mike

Rear wheel spindle and dummy axle torque is 80 ft. lbs. and you better use it. Just my opinion and the workshop manual's too. I typically use a breaker bar to tighten them. You may want to get the madass single axle if you're worried about the dummy axle. It comes for the early 68-70 models too.

Hi Craig,
if the problem occurs only when you torque down the axle nut, I don't think your problem is with the shoe thickness. I'm betting that when you tighten the axle, the rivets on the inside of the drum are rubbing/binding against the inside of the brake shoes. This will also sound very much like your chain rubbing against the guard. As a test, try placing a washer over the dummy axle, on the inside of the drum (i.e. up against the bearing side) and this will act as a spacer between the hub and the brake plate, giving more room for the rivet welds.
Let us know,
Paul.

Yes dommie I see the rivets are damaged by rotation looks like bolts on shoes are hitting too!Suggestions PLEASE !!!I checked old drum and no marks on lower rise rivet heads but shoes appear to be same size as new ones..
Thanks everyone for your time...
Craig

Just now went out to shed and tightened up dummy axel to spec backed off time side axel bolt 2 or 3 turns wheel spun nicely with just a bit of a rub that I would expect from a new drum and shoes . SO WHAT AM I MISSING ???
Thanks for your time
Craig

The rivets and bolts that mount shoes damage can be from loose axle or worn bearings. You need to verify that your bearings are correct and the hub spacer for the bearings is properly installed, it has to be installed correctly, there is a long lip on the single row bearing side. The bearing and clip in the brake drum also needs to be properly installed. The spacers, shims and the gearbox/top hat spacer all need to be correct dimensions for the brake shoes to have proper clearance in the drum/brake plate.

http://www.oldbritts.com/1971_g16.html

Like I say, install things loosely without the gearbox and watch things as you tighten the axle up, you might be able to see or feel what is binding.

Lots of times spacers and washers get crushed from lots of tightening the rear axle, it may be time to buy some new parts. It wouldn't hurt to have some spares anyhow.

The speedo gearbox is lots of times the culprit from rubbing on the hub cover plate.

Still, you should be able to tighten the timing side (long) axle to 80 ft. lbs. with no binding, I do it all the time.

Can you hear rubbing or does it just bind to a stop when tightening the long bolt?

Thank you GENTLEMAN I will be back at it Sat. after chores !!!
Thank you all for your time
Craig

I would try assembling the rear wheel with NO brake shoes, to tell for sure if we have a brake shoe issue, or a spacer/bearing/alignment/axle issue. Then we can chase down from there. Only take a few minutes. :lol:

That was what I was thinking last night, assemble without the shoes and that will eliminate that as a problem if it's not that. Always seems like people are having troubles with rear wheel assembly. You may want to look through this thread like the MKIII rear wheel thread suggests too. help-with-rear-hub-assembly-t16342.html

I'm thinking most of the time it's a crushed or missing spacer from too much assembly. The clearances with rear wheel assembly is real close.

Dave

no wish to insult you...

Are you sure you are putting the dummy axle in the correct side of the rear brake drum? (ie between the drum and the hub)

http://bit.ly/12yPa1G

I made this error when I first assembled a Norton rear wheel, and the behaviour was identical to what you are describing - wheel spun fine until I tweaked it up.
I only had a Triumph conical hub to compare it to at the time, which didn't have the dummy axle arrangement.

I am now using one of Don's (madass) one piece axles and it is perfect!

I'm sure you guys will sort the spacer/binding issues out. For rear brake stopping power I recommend the RGM high friction rear brake shoes. They smell like they came off the farm and look like compressed coconut husk fiber with flecks of brass in it. Man-they stop!!! They fit the drum right out of the box too. Quality stuff.

Got back to Brutus last night after heat in my shed got down to 26C ,took everything apart and found circlip had popped out of its groove in brake drum.I went up to house and got my good glasses and even with them hard to see difference in the edges of circlip,anyway reinstalled everything and EUREKA I'm in business.Today I will clean up the back end again and test ride ,right now wheel is spinning like a champ and I have improved brake action.Tomorrow I will order new circlip and get it installed for my peace of mind.I would like to thank you all for taking the time to ponder my problem and offer helpful suggestions!
Craig

Craig said:

Got back to Brutus last night after heat in my shed got down to 26C ,took everything apart and found circlip had popped out of its groove in brake drum.I went up to house and got my good glasses and even with them hard to see difference in the edges of circlip,anyway reinstalled everything and EUREKA I'm in business.Today I will clean up the back end again and test ride ,right now wheel is spinning like a champ and I have improved brake action.Tomorrow I will order new circlip and get it installed for my peace of mind.I would like to thank you all for taking the time to ponder my problem and offer helpful suggestions!
Craig

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Great! Ahhh... the things we take for granted as a young man, VISION! :lol:

great