Questions on Commando brake hoses

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pampadori

pampadori

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Nov 25, 2013
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Hello all,
My name is Shaun. I don't own a Norton motorcycle (yet) but i'm looking into producing some products that fit these bikes and have a few questions that aren't easy for me to answer without having one in the garage. I hope that maybe you guys could help :D

I have a small side business that I run out of my garage where I produce brake lines for older motorcycles. I want to add to my offerings and am deciding to offer lines for the Commandos, both 750 and 850's.
I've scrounged up a Vinhill 34" brake line that is designed for the Commando but It appears to have some odd fittings included. On each end, it has a -3 JIC male fitting with 37 degree flares on it. This seems odd for mass-produced braking components that are usually 45 degree flares.
First question: are they including the wrong fittings or did Norton actually use 37 degree flares?

Next question: Did the Commandos have 1 long hose for the front or do most of the aftermarket hoses substitute two hoses with one?
(what is preferred by enthusiasts?)

Were there many different part numbers for the hoses over the production years? Ideally, it would be best if 1 kit would fit the lot but that doesn't usually happen.

So thanks in advance if you can offer any insight. Hopefully i can help out and fill at least a little gap in the aftermarket for these bikes.

Shaun
 
pampadori said:
Hello all,
My name is Shaun. I don't own a Norton motorcycle (yet) but i'm looking into producing some products that fit these bikes and have a few questions that aren't easy for me to answer without having one in the garage. I hope that maybe you guys could help :D

I have a small side business that I run out of my garage where I produce brake lines for older motorcycles. I want to add to my offerings and am deciding to offer lines for the Commandos, both 750 and 850's.
I've scrounged up a Vinhill 34" brake line that is designed for the Commando but It appears to have some odd fittings included. On each end, it has a -3 JIC male fitting with 37 degree flares on it. This seems odd for mass-produced braking components that are usually 45 degree flares.
First question: are they including the wrong fittings or did Norton actually use 37 degree flares?

Next question: Did the Commandos have 1 long hose for the front or do most of the aftermarket hoses substitute two hoses with one?
(what is preferred by enthusiasts?)

Were there many different part numbers for the hoses over the production years? Ideally, it would be best if 1 kit would fit the lot but that doesn't usually happen.

So thanks in advance if you can offer any insight. Hopefully i can help out and fill at least a little gap in the aftermarket for these bikes.

Shaun
Click to expand...

Hi Shaun, welcome. Be advised there are US spec handlebar height, and the lower European bar height, require different length hoses. Then there's the clip-on bar crowd, a significant number.
The fitting sizes are here on the forum, if you search.
 
pampadori said:
I've scrounged up a Vinhill 34" brake line that is designed for the Commando but It appears to have some odd fittings included. On each end, it has a -3 JIC male fitting with 37 degree flares on it. This seems odd for mass-produced braking components that are usually 45 degree flares.
First question: are they including the wrong fittings or did Norton actually use 37 degree flares?
Click to expand...


brake-line-fittings-t16909.html


pampadori said:
Next question: Did the Commandos have 1 long hose for the front or do most of the aftermarket hoses substitute two hoses with one?
(what is preferred by enthusiasts?)

Were there many different part numbers for the hoses over the production years? Ideally, it would be best if 1 kit would fit the lot but that doesn't usually happen.
Click to expand...

http://www.bigdcycle.com/books.html


A single R/H front disc brake was fitted to the Commando from 1972 - 1974.
For the 1975-on models, (850 MkIII) the brake moved to the L/H side, the 850 MkIII front brake rigid/flexible hose assembly is therefore different, the MkIII also had a rear disc brake.
 
Thanks J.A.B. From the pics you posted, looks like the factory items had a 45 degree male flare, but Venhill and Merlin Motorsports supply a 37 degree.

While not ideal, a 37 degree male will seal with a 45 degree female because the tip of the cone collides first. But for the hoses that I intend to produce, I'll use 3/8 -24 with a 45 degree flare. Maybe that will be one of the things that will set my hoses apart.

Also, thanks for the Big D Cycle link. Looks like a valuable resource!

Shaun
 
Never heard of an issue where the hoses supplied by Venhill and others leaked as a result of their flare choice. So I don't see any actual advantage in making them 45 degrees to "set them apart." IMO, there needs to be a better reason than that to buy your brand. There is just no leakage/expansion/durability issues with the SS hoses that are currently supplied so the only reason I can think of that would cause someone to choose one hose over another would be equal quality at a lower price. Or perhaps a hose with a plastic/rubber clear tube for protection of other parts as opposed to one without...but again, these are available now.

I have to say that I don't see any opportunity here unless you can make/sell them for less money than current suppliers.
 
mike996 said:
Never heard of an issue where the hoses supplied by Venhill and others leaked as a result of their flare choice. So I don't see any actual advantage in making them 45 degrees to "set them apart." IMO, there needs to be a better reason than that to buy your brand. There is just no leakage/expansion/durability issues with the SS hoses that are currently supplied so the only reason I can think of that would cause someone to choose one hose over another would be equal quality at a lower price. Or perhaps a hose with a plastic/rubber clear tube for protection of other parts as opposed to one without...but again, these are available now.

I have to say that I don't see any opportunity here unless you can make/sell them for less money than current suppliers.
Click to expand...

I can think of other reasons to go with brand x over brand y or z. Cheaper or better or actually DOT legal in the USA (requirements now include having double lay lines and the country of origin clearly displayed on the hose) or more options and configurations (like producing the rigid brake pipes to include or the option to bypass with one longer braided hose).

I've had numerous inquiries from customers to have my company offer lines for the Commandos so there is at least some market segment to pick up. Maybe not the lion's share but my minimal investment is easy to make back.

Next question: Does anyone want to supply a complete factory set of brake lines from a 72-74 to me with rigid pipes in exchange for a FREE set of stainless steel braided lines with nickel-copper alloy rigid pipes? Crimped together, not built from adapters or screw together fittings - All DOT legal and made in the USA?

Same offer for a MkIII hose setup as well.
 
Hi Shuan, my special will need custom brake hoses soon but only thing Norton to fit is the Lockheed front caliper. My special has unusual needs so may need a stand pipe that's longer than the hose. I'll get back when I have specifics on ordering data. Wound be neat to see your hose color and texture or covering offerings. I finally got cleared up on the flair fitting details to watch for, thanx.
 
have a set of mk111 hoses I can send you both front and rear. would you want rigid lines also?
 
Ugh Shaun, about nothing really Norton will fit on my mad max Ms Peel. Forks 2" longer-taller than stock and tallish 8" rise bars with bark busters and cheap flashy billet after market master cylinder so I can stand full upright on pegs and routing issues to miss air hose plumbing-manifold-bar switch cluster to air muscles and foot forward pegs on fork brace. Rear-swingarm with 2" more travel and unusual master cylinder mount on LH to cross past air supply submarine, rump rod linkage, curled up oil hoses to oil filter above swing arm into frame tank while not fouling on splash guards. I need info on how to measure hose run then my options on the rigid tube sections, if I even need that after I figure out routing. Also hung up on what color to get.
 
donmeek said:
have a set of mk111 hoses I can send you both front and rear. would you want rigid lines also?
Click to expand...

Yes, include the rigid lines too. I'll need them to design a set from. I'll PM you my shipping address.

Also, still need 72-74 hoses. Bwolfie couldn't put his hands on the set he was going to send to me. Anyone else want to exchange for a free SS braided set?
 
hobot said:
Ugh Shaun, about nothing really Norton will fit on my mad max Ms Peel. Forks 2" longer-taller than stock and tallish 8" rise bars with bark busters and cheap flashy billet after market master cylinder so I can stand full upright on pegs and routing issues to miss air hose plumbing-manifold-bar switch cluster to air muscles and foot forward pegs on fork brace. Rear-swingarm with 2" more travel and unusual master cylinder mount on LH to cross past air supply submarine, rump rod linkage, curled up oil hoses to oil filter above swing arm into frame tank while not fouling on splash guards. I need info on how to measure hose run then my options on the rigid tube sections, if I even need that after I figure out routing. Also hung up on what color to get.
Click to expand...

I usually use something like a clutch cable or vacuum hose to measure the length with. you won't have to worry about clocking on the fittings if you keep things similar enough to what i think the factory fittings were.
Reach out to me when you get closer and we can chat it out on the phone or something. I'm still waiting to get some stock lines here to go from so you've got some time.
 
Ok cool, I'm at point brake hoses are next hang up in my long grinding finer Ms Peel project. I'll use some similar size plastic tube to measure the runs. Will need to look up variety of banjo's with a bend in their stalk and maybe rigid tube to cross rear frame for hose to aim down and back to RH caliper. Would love to see some flashy color options besides plain old SS braid. I prefer to spend with someone that's got an interest in Commando's. Oh yeah will need a inline pressure switch for the rear brake, front caliper has built in switch.

This is similar to front master cylinder I'm using but w/o the clunky round reservoir, low profile with sight glass.
Questions on Commando brake hoses
 
Shaun I measured

Rear hose 25.5" inches with straight on banjo fittings on master cylinder and caliper.

Front hose 28" with factory stand pipe, so pipe fitting on bottom and a banjo ring on master cylinder. Front bar m/c needs banjo with about 1" x 1" 90' elbow.

Ms Peel needs robust armor d/t lengths of the runs and exposure to tire blast and off road snagging jabbing brush limbs and of course going down in jets of THE Gravel leaving lunar like grinding dust everywhere.
 
hobot said:
Shaun I measured

Rear hose 25.5" inches with straight on banjo fittings on master cylinder and caliper.

Front hose 28" with factory stand pipe, so pipe fitting on bottom and a banjo ring on master cylinder. Front bar m/c needs banjo with about 1" x 1" 90' elbow.

Ms Peel needs robust armor d/t lengths of the runs and exposure to tire blast and off road snagging jabbing brush limbs and of course going down in jets of THE Gravel leaving lunar like grinding dust everywhere.
Click to expand...

Why don't you call me. Its easier if I have technical drawings but the next best thing is verbal conversation. I have too many questions plus you sound like you'd provide unusually amazing conversation if your writing is any indication.
804-505-0006 leave a msg if i don't find the answer button fast enough and i'll call you right back.
 
Thanks Don for sending your MkIII lines to me to reproduce. I'll send your free lines to you this weekend.

Still need early brake lines if anyone is interested. PM me and I'll provide the address to send them.

Questions on Commando brake hoses
 
@donmeek
I tried to reply to your pm but the site isn't sending my reply, it just sticks in my outbox.

Here is what I wanted to say:

The hard brake tubes are what your missing. I kept them all except the rear one that you noted you would need returned.

I assumed you had another set. If you need me to send them to you let me know. No problem to do that.
Shaun
 
pampadori said:
@donmeek
I tried to reply to your pm but the site isn't sending my reply, it just sticks in my outbox.
Click to expand...

A PM stays in your Outbox until the recipient opens/reads the message.
 
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