Push-Pull throttles?

Ms Peel will have a flat slide throttle that's known prone to sticking open. Must convert to push-pull with at least 40 mm travel. Also seek a faster 1/4 turn throttle as I found Shutting Off fast is way more vital than fast power up to go as fast as Peel likes when fast throttle up used to trip her out in time. Insights accepted.

Here's the slickest I found so far, more pricey too of course.
http://www.gptechllc.com/activethrottle.html

You could use a std Ducati ss model (92 to 96 ) as they are of a nice and unobtrusive design
As you said those flatslides can show reluctant to closing but with keighins on my Duke I simply fitted stronger return springs ,note these are just feeble springs OUTSIDE the carb but by splitting them (the carbs , as they come in fixed pairs) and fitting springs on EACH carb I got a very light throttle action and yet no sticking slides
I used a original twistgrip because I did not like those fancy shiny grips that come with keighins
If the travel is not big enough you could turn up some new discs wich fit onto the spindle that activates the slide That is what I had to do

From memory Hobot, 70's/80's Honda and Yamaha dirt bikes (XL AND XT/TT), had push pull on them to go with the Butterfly/Vacumn carbies they were using.
Obviously you would need the linkage on top.
AC.

Be worth bearing in mind that you will need to use an FCR carb to work with that throttle, and also that as FCR's have bearings between the slide and the carb body, they dont have problems with sticking open.

Thanx AC, the Honda lead is educational for sourcing parts and functional issue of adjusting cables etc.

CF I don't know what FCR means/relates too. I did destroy a 36 mm QuikSliver flat slide by careful machinist removal of its push/pull, geared cam shaft metal tape slide mechanism to find it could not adapt on Lake 'Injector', then on mock up on engine found worse - no carb at all will fit with the alternator in the way of Drouin manifold opening. The Only reports of Lake injector sticking issues were on the intake sides of boosters. Everyone else liked them a lot and still a bunch around on specials not exposed to extra suction.

Just occurred to me a hydraulic cylinder system might work but no desire to attempt that if there's simple mechanical way to work slide exactly on time as needed.

Just to rub ya rawer on me, another reason I know my linked Cdo is so much ahead of the pack, no one but no one mentions the need to shut off FAST as more vital than need to spike power to change direction w/o losing momentum or crashing. Chopping power in mid apex causes all other bikes to lose control, not Ms Peel, that's just the beginning of her excitement to me. If Peel had like 2.5x's more power response than factory I could by pass the need to hi side in time and just run it upright like parking lot slow riding w/o letting up on the wrist straining butt smashing, breath emptying brain squashing acceleration all the way around. Yes its driven me quite insane beyond reach of ordinary motorcycling world. Ain't Skeerr'd nor coming down from my Unapproachable isolastic Roadholder Commando flying saucer smooth corner jerker.

Push Pull... Have you looked into the prospect of an actuall push pull cable. Not a twin cable set up, but a single, solid inner thing
like those used on an Outboard motor on a boat... Not sure even if they exist, that small, or if one could be made, but there is plenty
of talent around this Forum, someone will know.
I think they drag a bit so might not be an option, who knows ?
AC.

If you are looking for best possible performance, then why not just fit 2x throttle bodies, and injectors driven from a home built Mega Squirt ECU? Seems strange that no one is selling kits along these lines, as I get the feeling they would work extremely well on old Brit motors!

Carbonfibre said:

If you are looking for best possible performance, then why not just fit 2x throttle bodies, and injectors driven from a home built Mega Squirt ECU? Seems strange that no one is selling kits along these lines, as I get the feeling they would work extremely well on old Brit motors!

Click to expand...

What benefit would Hobot get from running two throttle bodies? Hes got a suck thru supercharger setup on there, I dont think a more standard commando would really benefit from dual throttle bodies over a single one either. The Megasquirt is getting a bit big to tuck away on a Commando, not impossible though, microsquirt would be better... However the kick start is a bit of a sticking point, you cant kick it fast enough for the ECU to initialise. People have got around this but the solutions arent as open source as the megasquirt stuff was back in the day.

Hobot, the XRs (well the bigger ones) had a push pull throttle as well, its a shame you cant fit some kind of CV carb in there, the butterflys are usually made so they shut by themselves.

Cheesy is on the scent of Ms Peel's trail. I hung out with Megasquirt crowd both on their forum and another private gear head one so I'm pretty familiar with all the model options, adaptations, mapping and big frustrations dialing in with almost shoe box size components once everything needed is put together, ugh.
Peels has as good or better PowerArch ignition - 3 spark programmable, 4 curve manual-auto switchable. If ya after lean burn economy forced fuel injection is the way to go, but I am after trials MX tame down low to tire smoking top end so going with a old school fluid dynamics mixture computer - nail in a tube in the air path. I can program in TDC kick spark and self limiting idle rpm like the TriSpark curve advantage.

Drouin response won't need small dual throat set , up just big enough throat not to delay response to top end off idle feeding what should behave as a 1500cc engine with drag only cam. I've communed with a few Drouin users and to a man those that tried CV carbs were put off by the poor power response and when with big ass butter flys in 1200 Harley installs or flat slides in Commando's. Bruce MeGregor here had hints of Lake Injector sticking in garage testing so went with a round slide carb, then a CV carb and now most happy with a Lectron carb, which is just a Lake Injector with a fuel bowl and better throttle slide closer. . QuikSilver carb is same as Lectron carb with a decent idle circuit and optional accelerator pump and cam geared push-pull slide. Same designer for them and Eddlebrock bought the QuikSilver model and supports it yet but stopped making-selling them. Search the names to find more.

W/o the Drouin I'd sure be restless till I figured out a Quadrajet set up, small bore throttle for good low end response and progressive linkage for scary top end. I saw Honda and other chats about fitting a longer throw throttle, like 42 mm on 38 mm slide carb to get even faster shorter WOT twist up, but that's not my need, SHUTTING THE FUK OFF in time is. What yoose guys is missing out on and everyone else and their little sisters on computer brained control is they can't enter turns so harsh to crash on purpose and pull off the saves Peel does by cutting throttle right where everyone one else is trying to get on power again. Extra power ain't nothing but dangerous if the chassis and pilot can't handle the power loads, but Ms Peel sure seemed eager for way more than I could handle and I can handle rather more on Peel than anything I've tried or contested with or seen displayed in race video. Ms Peel even in mere Combat good power would enter turns so hot where everyone else is hard on brakes she got her aiming changes by tipping a bit more to break free then upright a bit more to hook up while constantly cranking in More power as traction increased with speeding up through the turns so if corner didn't dramatically decrease by lay of the road, we just make it one to keep them G's planting me in the saddle pressed into rear tire patch.

Everyone else's rides slow down on power chops, not Ms Peel whose chassis twist up energy storage unwraps like a sling shot at the point of least traction to give spikes of Acceleration impossible to impart by mere engine torque on leaned to max tire grip. I can aim this flying leap any direction and as far out as needed, provided I've gone in fast enough on enough power that'd take down an ordinary flexy cycle or too rigid kind.
But that is just phase 3 and 4, phase 5 needs horrendous power to stay loose as a Gravel Goose.

Off to a hog ralley with police teams and stunt riding to learn from. Ms Peels ultimate challenge is to out Gymkahana race Karts though I need much practice to catch up to what I've seen already. Tarmac road racing stuff is fun as can be but so totally conquered by Peel no adrenalin tremble response after wiping up the squid packs in mere phase 2 handling to have my real fun solo as usual letting Peels hair out in 3 more furious phases she invites me into.

Be interesting to see some pics of the supercharger set up, and wonder whether or not the motor has a one piece crank? Here in the UK back in the day, many people running superchargers on drag bikes, used cheap and easy to set up SU carbs, which seemed to work very well, and no need for push pull throttle.

Thought ya half way was keeping up with Peel's deal, but I already know any and every Norton is rpm allergic - so pressing the torque part over the rev up part and Norton cranks can stand that rather better than piston jerk rpm jump rope. Peel's crank is three piece all steel welded into one then completely Nitride hardened outside with all stress risers radius-ed. Adjustable BF 56% to over 100% to further explore power pulse effects of isolastics on tire edge grip and marble covered hill climbs. Considering running a plastic bolt up close to rim of flywheel and see at what rpm it touches and mark tack and set rev limiter just short of that.



Various types of boosters have various types of air curves- boost response. Drouins are belt drive turbo snails blower not kompressor, so boost has soft hit down low but almost exponential rise with rpm. I don't want a flat torque curve I want one that slopes up steeply, I think. Boost depends more on speed of throttle opening to laod it rather than how much its opened. Past magazine editor could brave loading to 8 PSI, Tom Drouin could load his to over 12 PSI and our Bruce MeGregor here with stock 850 reported 15 PSI showing. Peel's deal could top 17:1 CR so plan to cable-chain the head down on barrel to the cradle.

Here's Bruce posting on his evolving set up.
post19405.html?hilit=drouin#p19405

Here's Candy Red Cdo with Drouin + Lake Injector behaving civilized.
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=693BzcgyKZ0[/video]

Here's DynoDave's Drouin site but he's not displayed what I sent him yet which would about double his data with rather interesting Magazine articles from that era.
http://atlanticgreen.com/ndsc.htm

Here's mock up of Ms Peel deal photo's two below.
peel-buldt-into-blower-corner-new-risk-taking-t7639.html

Looks very nice.............what sort of rear wheel HP can be expected with that set up, and can the max boost level be easily varied?

Drouins come with 7:1 pulley ratio, which could be changed by changing crank pulley size, which would require changing the primary cover for clearance as the impeller pulley is already only 1" OD and much smaller would not give belt traction to turn to over 49,000 rpm @ 7000 on tach. 1" wide flat belts are only rated to 6 hp or so and Bruce McGregor is getting hundreds and hundreds of mile out of them while spiking to 15 PSI he reported this year, on his essentially stock 850 engine. Peel has belt tensioner and adjustable blow off valve to limit power if that becomes an issue and I expect it will.

UGH. I only know for sure that no way on God's Gray Tarmac can I ever approach WOT w/o totally dissolving factory drive train, so have no dreams at all to out run SR1000 after 150 mph or so until $4000 spent on TTI tranny. You know enough I'm finding out to realize at this level of power plants its a sliding scale of fuel octane, ambiant temps, ignition timing, rpm levels and pilot bravery for final tire patch out put. Ms Peel first try out will be on 130 race tire to see if its mass and profile interfere with her *Flabbergastingly Fabulous* handling, but expect I can only field her on 120 tire to depend on tire smoke or clutch slip to protect the main shaft from cork screwing up. Still I remind...

Everyone that the excess power plant is just thin layer of icing on top of full boogie 750 Combat power to spank the baddest bikes with best riders to 100 mph when I must snick 3rd to avoid 8000 rpm strains Because Ms Peel is the worlds first and one and only triple rod linked isolastic flying saucer Commando that only ever got out run when I backed off 135 mph d/t known hazard crisis past each and every blind crest and turn - or in first take offs to speed got passed ~ 90 mph when I snicked 3rd, the absolute worse ratio and weakest teeth link in the gear box.

Here's my forum post that seems to have flown over everyone's heads on power potential the way I'm doing it > against the grain of normal boost power sets ups. A fast acting throttle should allow loading Drouin rather more than I've been brave enough to put into the engine calculators. Peel's parts got tested to way over 11,000 rpm and only the crank bent and the stuff on its ends damaged but still pushed a barn door size winter-rain wind screen to 110 mph so I could practice body slam steering hands off into 35 mph marked turns. {I was not going 110 by time of apex as hand off throttle wind resiance slowed to 90-80 and took some time for body slams to over come gyro's a bit each slam]
Totally self centering one 1/2 cycle fork dampening, no tank slap possible in Total Neutral tri-linked hobot Roadholder'd one in a row Ms Peel. Me and Kieth Code have a direct conflict of experiences, he states front tire turns bike, but he's not gone as fast around as loose as me to KNOW the Rear Tire Rules the Roost!

Ya see for me on Peel the real need of about 1 lb ft torque to 3 lb bike/pilot mass is to extend phase 5 handling to over the ton. 5th phase handling don't involve much lean while straight steering on grinding non melting non abrading tire hook up w/o any instants hesitation of acceleration forward threw turns.
Anybody on a hi hp bike can shoot straight ahead easy enough, ho hum. The extra rub in worlds smirks is to operate Peel as a handy raw woods trials bike too > after a cross state comfy cargo run to the track days and back.

I've put in the effort, you tell me what power to expect please that needs about instant positive throttle spikes to negative drag digital traction operation.
interweb-engine-calculator-game-t8398.html

We seem to have got a bit off track here, not that there's anything wrong with that George, err Hobot,
So what has happened with the throtle ?
AC.

I learned that Honda has items I may need to adapt a hi end adjustable ratio push-pull for its quickness to snap Shut in time.

The other shoe is there is no provision to attach a pull cable to bottom of Lake slide so will have to diddle a secure non intrusive cable end mount and a guided path tube so it don't bind.

People build road racers or drag racers, and hill climbers and MX trials players and Interstate cruisers with trailers or side car and speedway drifters... but they don't usually mix em all up like Ms Peel must do or bust.

Pics of Lake please.
Here we go.
AC.

Lake Injector anatomy, R click photo then L click image for full display.
Cable enters top and held by 1st top screw in slide, 2nd screw holds fuel nail at a set tapper height, 2 push down spring are inside slide under the 2 posts extending above slide, fuel has open path form tank to fuel stand pipe. Photo shows the opening expected to hold, trying to snap shut after a hi boost zoom up that don't stop till many yds in flight off bluff face road landing in trees or rocks. Its killed one riders daddy when I asked a decade ago about Drouin experiences. The filer face is next to it with the wire screen. Will be replaced by serious Harley size cone K/N type filter surrounded by cone of foam. Task is to attach a down pull cable and the 90s bent tube guides.