Pulled Norton Head Stud - Not

This is one for the books. I read about making aluminum bronze inserts for the Norton cylinder head to receive the standard cylinder head studs after a stud pull out but this is a new twist; at least new to me.

The picture below shows the cylinder head studs by Herb Becker for the 500 Norton ultra short stroke.

Instead of an aluminum bronze insert, just go with a two diameter stud. I just think this is brilliant yet so simple. This was a preventative measure; all three studs are like this.

It does work. Just use aftermarket Chevy rocker arm studs. 7/16 on one end and 3/8th on the other. Jim

comnoz said:

It does work. Just use aftermarket Chevy rocker arm studs. 7/16 on one end and 3/8th on the other. Jim

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For all I know, that may be what we are looking at. Just kicked me in the arse thinking "so simple".

Chevy went that coarse into the cast iron or arre we talking Chevy alloy heads?

I think the kits are for both iron and alloy heads. They look like the ones in your picture. They are built to replace the pressed in studs Chevy used. Jim

PS sent from the beach in Gulf Shores La.

comnoz said:

PS sent from the beach in Gulf Shores La.

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Rub it in. Cold rain here. Wish I were at Barber. Almost made it.

Stud looks manufactured. I am still impressed; does not take that much these days.

The one downfall I see it it trying to back out when the nut becomes stuck, and then you've got problems.
Plus if the aluminum decides to go soft, you will have an eaven bigger hole to repair.
I'm sure this would work well, but I still prefer Jim's valve guide fix the best so far.

bwolfie said:

The one downfall I see it it trying to back out when the nut becomes stuck, and then you've got problems.
Plus if the aluminum decides to go soft, you will have an eaven bigger hole to repair.
I'm sure this would work well, but I still prefer Jim's valve guide fix the best so far.

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A back out might be a challenge but has not happened - yet, and if it did it is not a show stopper but more of a nuisance.

I doubt these will pull out; if they do you have other problems. The simplicity of this is it is a one piece solution, allows broader selection of nuts, it's apparently off the shelf with simple machining of the head and no special materials required.

An aluminum bronze insert is slick if you have the materials, the machining resources and get a good zero clearance fit but it is another part.

A drop of loctite on the 7/16th end probably prevents the stud unwinding....and making sure the nut and 3/8th thread are clean and not tight....

If it was my stud hole I'd have very little faith in any Loctite to keep the stud fixed in the cases as they get plenty hot enough to soften the red stud thread locker to loose some thread locking running which can allow the stud to back out with nut still on. Not a show stopper right away but one more layer of Al thread wiped away each time, especially with the gritty lock tight helping abrade if having to run in again. Jim Comstock and hobot recommend hi temp JBW that turns to thick clay like consistency when heated to twice boiling temps, so a torch on the stud till like glowing then 30 sec wait for stud to shrink and cases expand on heat flow to back the stud out w/o issue if it needed replacing. This is how I did the 3 studs holding front of primary case on.

hobot said:

If it was my stud hole I'd have very little faith in any Loctite to keep the stud fixed in the cases as they get plenty hot enough to soften the red stud thread locker to loose some thread locking running which can allow the stud to back out with nut still on.

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Try waiting until the bike cools down a bit before wrenching :lol:

There may be higher temp loctites. JB Weld seems to have a very high service temperature rating.

Tease me misconscrewing my message but anti torque-thread wear forces are at work on the fly and wouldn't want to see a Commando loose another 'tooth', so advise, don't short change with heat intolerant Loctite nor the wimpy click of a torque wrench here. Its takes some days or some good heat to really set up hi temp JBW so if double nuted to run in, don't expect it to stay in backing them off right away. JBW does not really adhere like glue its more a solid lock up mechanically so might scratch the stud threads a bit first, like run a hack saw blade for notches so no hang up on the Al threads going in or ugh out again, once heated to like double boiling temps.

"Misconscrewing" :lol: League of your own.
"I never heard of anti torque-thread wear forces" Is that anything like moon traction beam forces. Not trying to misconstrue things here, just trying to understand.

You on a mission to crap all over this thread?

As for locking studs in place, there are times you may want to remove something like a stud (not an insert) so using JB weld for this application would be shooting ones self in ones foot in a big way unless you want to be a hack mechanic (aka damn the torque wrench). JB Weld would be suitable for an aluminum bronze thread insert where you do not need it to come out.

Dances with Shrapnel said:

hobot said:

If it was my stud hole I'd have very little faith in any Loctite to keep the stud fixed in the cases as they get plenty hot enough to soften the red stud thread locker to loose some thread locking running which can allow the stud to back out with nut still on.

Click to expand...

Try waiting until the bike cools down a bit before wrenching :lol:

There may be higher temp loctites. JB Weld seems to have a very high service temperature rating.

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There's a fair amount of misinformaton around bike forums on the heat limits for threadlockers. Loctite 617 (red) threadlocker has a normal operating range up to 300 degerees F, which is fine for crankcase fasteners and such. I'ts actually good for above that temp, but does start to lose some of it's strength. To get it hot enough to remove easily, you have to heat it to almost 500 degrees F. If you're worried about higher temperatures, use Loctite 620, their high temperature retaining compound, which has an operating range of up to 450 degrees F. That should be more than good enough for studs in the cylinder and heads. The temperature of the head in the stud areas should never get anywhere near that temperature. I use 620 for retaining bushings and shafts, and sometimes loose bearings, and it works quite well. The original J-B Weld is good for a constant 500 degrees F, so it should also not have heat problems in the stud areas.

Ken

I've had to pull studs with red loctite and didn't have to heat to oil smoking temp to release-soften it to just annoying drag to bad off. On last Trixie Combat crank renewal after rod bolt corrosion let go I found most the crank nuts almost loose with the red loctite failing to hold clamp torque but did prevent em backing to fall off. I'd put the crank nuts on so hard i broke a wrench jaw off and there was plenty weeks to set up before run. I don't have much faith in loctite to even half their rated heat range, but hey its another hobot bad habit no one should try to follow.