Protect yourself

DogT

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Wife and I had the 2 jabs in early Feb and Mar, no side effects other than a sore arm for me the first one.
 
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In a few parts of the UK there has been no deaths or infections from Covid 19 right now, here's hoping it will continue to do so.
 
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Anti- vaxxers are ruining the possibility of herd immunity here, so instead of the disease getting beat down, it will continue to be passed back and forth among the moron population until they are either all dead or have achieved some sort of immunity from multiple infections. The very extremely lucky few who don't get sick will claim they were right all along.
 

Fast Eddie

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I look at it slightly more positively... those who want a vaccine get one and get immunity. Those who don’t either don’t catch the virus, so it doesn’t matter... or they do, and they get immunity. Whether immunity is achieved from the vaccine or the virus, it is still achieved right?

I ain’t gonna lose any sleep if some anti vaxers die as a result of their choices.
 

NPeteN

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I look at it slightly more positively... those who want a vaccine get one and get immunity. Those who don’t either don’t catch the virus, so it doesn’t matter... or they do, and they get immunity. Whether immunity is achieved from the vaccine or the virus, it is still achieved right?

I ain’t gonna lose any sleep if some anti vaxers die as a result of their choices.

The virus mutates the more it gets passed between the anti-vax, soon the vaccine we have worked/waiting on for so long can no longer protect the vaccinated.
 
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India's Modi has finally ordered a 100, 000 doses on Covid 19 for his people, yesterday, but this only covers 4% of Indian population.
Make of this what you will . . . . ..
 
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I look at it slightly more positively... those who want a vaccine get one and get immunity. Those who don’t either don’t catch the virus, so it doesn’t matter... or they do, and they get immunity. Whether immunity is achieved from the vaccine or the virus, it is still achieved right?

I ain’t gonna lose any sleep if some anti vaxers die as a result of their choices.
As far as I know, the immunity from having had Covid is no protection against catching it again. And just because you have been vaccinated, doesn't mean you can't catch and spread Covid- it's just a lot less likely and even less likely to be severe. There are already documented cases of vaccinated people testing positive. So what occurs when not enough folks get vaccinated is, the disease continues to be passed around and deaths and severe illness are perpetuated. And the rest of us will continue to keep requiring booster shots as our immunity wanes. If disease was fair and only killed the stupid, I would agree. But it doesn't work like that.
 

Fast Eddie

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Where do you get the argument that having COVID doesn’t provide some immunity against it? That’s not my understanding. That’s in fact what the original ‘herd immunity’ concept is based on.
How good the immunity is, and how long it last, I don’t think we know that yet, but that’s the same, for the vaccines!

But don’t misunderstand me, I do agree with you that with you that ‘the more the better’ with vaccinations. Here in the U.K. our numbers seem to prove that beyond doubt. We’ve gone from having the worst spike in Europe to the lowest in Europe and the only difference is our vaccine success vs the shambles the Europeans are suffering.

I think part of the problem is the mixed messages sent out (mainly) by politicians, they have definitely fuelled the doubters, even created doubters, especially in the young. Lots of examples in Europe, inc U.K., about that.

But the scientists have fuelled doubt in the young too by pointing out the facts. The risk of serious illness in the healthy young is so low that the relative risk from the vaccine is proportionally much higher. Personally I fully understand why a healthy 18 would not want the jab, they just don’t feel at risk from the virus, yet they are keenly aware of the risks of the vaccine.

Then we get into the very dodgy ethical ground of saying ‘the young should get vaccinated to protect the old’. Well, maybe this is correct, but it’s a huge ethical dilema to ask the young to take a vaccine that has a hugely decreased benefit and a hugely increased risk to them, in order to protect others, that have been vacinated anyway.

Then there’s the Bill Gates argument, should we really be worrying about vaccinating healthy teenagers in the west when there are large populations around the world where the extremely vulnerable haven’t yet been vaccinated?

Its a complex picture Danno. It’s one of those times where I’m certainly glad I’m not calling the shots (no pun intended!).

My personal opinion is that the government’s around the world need to take their role in the whole propaganda space much more seriously. If public opinion is the ‘problem’ then it’s the role of govt to counter this. Seems to me most governments just assumed everyone would want this jab. But if that’s not the case, they need to start doing more about it.
 
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Where do you get the argument that having COVID doesn’t provide some immunity against it? That’s not my understanding. That’s in fact what the original ‘herd immunity’ concept is based on.
How good the immunity is, and how long it last, I don’t think we know that yet, but that’s the same, for the vaccines!

But don’t misunderstand me, I do agree with you that with you that ‘the more the better’ with vaccinations. Here in the U.K. our numbers seem to prove that beyond doubt. We’ve gone from having the worst spike in Europe to the lowest in Europe and the only difference is our vaccine success vs the shambles the Europeans are suffering.

I think part of the problem is the mixed messages sent out (mainly) by politicians, they have definitely fuelled the doubters, even created doubters, especially in the young. Lots of examples in Europe, inc U.K., about that.

But the scientists have fuelled doubt in the young too by pointing out the facts. The risk of serious illness in the healthy young is so low that the relative risk from the vaccine is proportionally much higher. Personally I fully understand why a healthy 18 would not want the jab, they just don’t feel at risk from the virus, yet they are keenly aware of the risks of the vaccine.

Then we get into the very dodgy ethical ground of saying ‘the young should get vaccinated to protect the old’. Well, maybe this is correct, but it’s a huge ethical dilema to ask the young to take a vaccine that has a hugely decreased benefit and a hugely increased risk to them, in order to protect others, that have been vacinated anyway.

Then there’s the Bill Gates argument, should we really be worrying about vaccinating healthy teenagers in the west when there are large populations around the world where the extremely vulnerable haven’t yet been vaccinated?

Its a complex picture Danno. It’s one of those times where I’m certainly glad I’m not calling the shots (no pun intended!).

My personal opinion is that the government’s around the world need to take their role in the whole propaganda space much more seriously. If public opinion is the ‘problem’ then it’s the role of govt to counter this. Seems to me most governments just assumed everyone would want this jab. But if that’s not the case, they need to start doing more about it.
Again reminded of the 1st time I got Malaria, even though taking antimalarial meds. Knocked me for six but, treated in the field, recovered after a day or so. On visiting the hospital on return to civilisation the Doc checked me over, gave me the all clear saying it was a good job I had been taking the meds. Been a convert to prevention is better than cure since. Ref. Immunity after infection, I am reminded of Malaria, still caught again and again but with minor symptoms.
 

gortnipper

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Where do you get the argument that having COVID doesn’t provide some immunity against it? That’s not my understanding. That’s in fact what the original ‘herd immunity’ concept is based on.
How good the immunity is, and how long it last, I don’t think we know that yet, but that’s the same, for the vaccines!
There are four Types of influenza, A, B, C and D. A and B are seasonal flu. In A alone there are about 200 strains. And there are also about 200 strains to the common cold.

Likely there is COVID-21, COVID-22, etc as the virus mutates. Just like there is an annual flu shot, we will probably have and annual COVID shot.
 

Time Warp

.......back to the 70's.
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I'm not sure shooting yourself in the foot is a good way to get an idea of how long it would take to heal in case you got shot in the future.
 

Fast Eddie

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There are four Types of influenza, A, B, C and D. A and B are seasonal flu. In A alone there are about 200 strains. And there are also about 200 strains to the common cold.

Likely there is COVID-21, COVID-22, etc as the virus mutates. Just like there is an annual flu shot, we will probably have and annual COVID shot.

I think that’s more than likely, almost inevitable IMHO. This little tinker is cohabiting this planet with us forever now !

The good news is that over time viruses tend to mutate to less deadly strains, it’s evolutionarily sensible for them as NOT killing your host population is simply a better way to stay in circulation.
 
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Seems to be very few anti vaxers in my country. In my region over 90% of the 70+ has got at least one shot. Now they allow all adults to get a shot..
 

Fast Eddie

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Uptake here in U.K. is better than expected too. So far. Not doing the young yet so we don’t yet know how they’re gonna respond. Making it a requirement to enter nightclubs would seem to solve the problem IMHO, the 18-30s would be clamouring for it then !!

Some ethnic groups are low, but that’s a cultural thing with all vaccines apparently, not sure want can be done about that though?
 
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