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Fast Eddie

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Not to mention, of which it was widely discussed, the UK government put in an order to Pfizer a whole 3 months before the EU did anything, whilst they formed committees, sub committees, and then, several hundred rolls of bog paper later, depending where the EU are sitting (note I said sitting! meaning either Strasbourg or Brussels ) - they stood back whilst someone else put a big order in.
And that’s exactly what they’re currently desperately trying to detract attention away from IMHO...
 
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Also in the pharma industry and agree with what FE and Kommando said above. Supply chains are massively complex. The knock on from the Covid vaccination programmes is that we're having to plan and order supplies e.g. for glass components like syringes, a couple of years ahead. Suppliers are flat out trying to cover Covid demand. Some suppliers were already struggling with capacity before Covid and were trying to get new plants up and running. There'll be lots of complexity and other surprises to deal with for at least a couple of years apart from the direct Covid stuff.

Politicians, of course, don't do complicated...
As a matter of curiosity, how much of this stuff is recycle-able / re-useable? I appreciate syringe needles will be one use only, but can the syringes be sterilised and have a new needle fitted? and the glass bottles? 5 doses per bottle adds up to a lot of bottles.
 

Fast Eddie

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As a matter of curiosity, how much of this stuff is recycle-able / re-useable? I appreciate syringe needles will be one use only, but can the syringes be sterilised and have a new needle fitted? and the glass bottles? 5 doses per bottle adds up to a lot of bottles.
That’s a good question. Sadly I don’t believe any of its re-used. Recycled (in terms of crushed up and re-melted for general use) yes, but not re-used.

Transportation of glass is already something that causes issues in pharma. I think the multiple transportation loops required to re-use would cause exponentially greater issues.

I’d be delighted to hear I’m wrong though...
 

Gadge

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As a matter of curiosity, how much of this stuff is recycle-able / re-useable? I appreciate syringe needles will be one use only, but can the syringes be sterilised and have a new needle fitted? and the glass bottles? 5 doses per bottle adds up to a lot of bottles.
It's been a few years since I looked into it and that was for metered dose inhalers rather than glass but I suspect it'll be similar.

There are multiple challenges. Syringes may have integral staked needles so are one patient use. You need disposal streams that separate any sharps or any potentially contaminated materials. Although there might be quite a few bottles by number, the actual glass volume is tiny, so not economical to recycle. You also have to consider what drug product it's contained and how it would be cleaned and sterilised. Syringes filled from vials may have no identification on them to indicate what they've delivered.

Some of the above might be possible in a vaccination centre where they are doing lots of the same shots as they are currently. But I doubt they'll have been much thought put into thinking about recycling when they were being set up, for obvious reasons.
 
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After the mention of the lead time for glass syringes, I was wondering if there will come a point where the limitation to the rate of vaccination would be availability of syringes rather than the vaccine itself?
 

Fast Eddie

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After the mention of the lead time for glass syringes, I was wondering if there will come a point where the limitation to the rate of vaccination would be availability of syringes rather than the vaccine itself?
I think that’s possible as I believe it’s close already !
 

Gadge

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Just heard some boffin on the radio say they need about 80 individual items in place at the vaccination centres so it could easily be any one of those that becomes rate limiting.
 

Tornado

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As far as I know, there are no glass syringes in use in healthcare settings for past decades. Risk of cross contamination just to high in the time of AIDs and other blood borne diseases. All single use syringes are considered disposable and biohazardous waste, to be autoclaved and ground up.

As for AZ manufacturing, this vaccine is a live recombinant Adenovirus with the Coronavirus spike protien gene inserted in its genome. It is produced in living cells, grown in huge vats called bioreactors. These are highly controlled for temp, pH, oxygenation, stirring velocities etc. Extremely complicated to setup and run batches over and over again to ensure acceptable yields and absolute sterility. The Indian production facility has been on line for similar virus and large biomolecule production years before covid. This older technology of live recombinant virus production, is one reason the mRNA technologies have much faster production cycles. Nothing needs to be grown and harvested.
 

Tornado

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I think that’s possible as I believe it’s close already !
There has been a huge increase in demand for the special "low dead volume" type syringes. These allow minimal wastage of the vaccine as much more of the volume drawnn into the syringe can be fully expelled. These makes it possible to get one extra dose out of the vaccine vials, which are typically rated for 5-10 doses per vial when using a standard higher dead volume type syringe. Doesn't sound like much, but then you mulitply out by millions of vials, it's a significant difference.
 

Tornado

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Canada has been sourcing vaccine from EU & India since the USA has not been exporting any of their internal production. This may soon be changing as they reach their vaccination goals and will have excess product. We've just heard a few days ago that the AZ vaccine produced in the US will now be given to Canada (1.5 million doses) & Mexico (2.5 million doses) since the US has not yet approved AZ and they look likely to be fully covered by production of Pfizer/Moderna/J&J vaccines. My impression here is that they have large amounts of AZ already produced in expectation of approval, but may not be needed, so rather than let it expire they are prepared to share. This is great news for Canada & Mexico...but also for the USA, as they will want us to open our borders sooner than later , which cannot happen until we are beating this thing down.
 

holtcorseaux

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To Chris, sorry about that for you and pleased you are getting better. The development and rollout of vaccines is astonishingly good to my mind. In the mid term it should be great news for everybody. Very nice to see US preparing to help others out. I’ve been really surprised here in Switzerland by the relatively slow rollout. Medical care is very good, although we all individually pay exorbitant health insurance for it, things like that do go better. However, we will get there eventually.
Wish everbidy a great Sunday.

Martin
 

Gadge

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As far as I know, there are no glass syringes in use in healthcare settings for past decades. Risk of cross contamination just to high in the time of AIDs and other blood borne diseases. All single use syringes are considered disposable and biohazardous waste, to be autoclaved and ground up.
I was talking about general use of glass as we use glass syringes and cartridges in injection pens and autoinjectors. Totally agree on reusable syringes filled from vials. Too risky. Just another one of the challenges for recycling/reuse.
 
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Hello,The big problem of the Astrazeneca is its reliability,60% only,the least performing on the market,,reassuring to return to a normal collective life unfortunately. It doesn’t matter who makes it or where.
 

Tornado

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My 83 yrs old Father in Ontario just got his first shot. He'd been contacted last week to schedule his shot for April 6th. But i'd signed him up for the regional 'reserve' list that tries to get nearby, eligible folks on short notice whenever they have some doses left over once all scheduled recipient are done that day. Saves wasting doses.
If any of you are waiting for your shot, checkout your regional healthcare web page or call them directly to see if they offer a reserve list process and see if you can sign up.
 
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Too much freedom allows you to shoot yourself in the foot. - At least we have compulsory voting in Australia.
Could this ever be our future ?
 

gortnipper

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I find medical single use supplies getting more and more wasteful, even without the issue of cross contamination.

I am a type 1 diabetic and used 10ml vials of insulin with standard disposable needles for many years. I would re-use the needles until they were dull, as studies have shown almost negligible risk for infection.

300-lantus-jpg-500x500.jpg


The pen device at the bottom is the new single use disposable that is being pushed hard. 3ml capacity, non-refillable, not at all re usable.

There is also a pen device that takes the 3ml cartridges that is reusable, and has replaceable needles.

Lantus-Cartridge.jpg


The issue with these is that they have to be "tickled" to prime and have a flat top piston, which wastes ~3-5% of the volume. It needs a domed piston. I could dig out an extra shot a month with a regular needle...
 
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Latest study on AZ vaccine.

The AstraZeneca vaccine is 100 percent effective against severe or critical disease and hospitalisation, a US study has shown.

AstraZeneca said an independent safety committee conducted a specific review of the blood clots in the U.S. trial, as well as cerebral venous sinus thrombosis (CVST), which is an extremely rare blood clot in the brain, with the help of an independent neurologist.

It showed that the AstraZeneca/Oxford vaccine was 79 percent effective at preventing symptomatic illness, and was 100 percent effective against severe or critical disease and hospitalisation.


So get vaccinated and you stay out of hospital but you have a 1 in 5 chance of mild flu like symptoms.

Sounds like an effective vaccine to me.
 
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