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gortnipper

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The UK prime minister Boris Johnson has accepted that it was a mistake to delay the start of the first national lockdown.
The PM has said he would act "harder, earlier and faster " if he had his time again.
When is the snap election?
 

Tornado

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EU has just reported their findings on the AZ adverse events of blood clotting. They have concluded there was no increase with clotting in those vaccinated vs the general population. In fact the number of cases (some 20-30 cases in the EU out of 20+ million AZ vaccinations) was actually lower than in the unvaccinated population. Out of an abundance of caution, they cannot completely rule out an association with the vaccine and will be recommending a change in the vaccine package documentation to alert healthcare works on what to look out for.

According to the Chair of the review committee: "Approximately 100,000 people in the EU develop blood clots per month in the general population. Wide spread vaccination campaigns will always show temporal correlations to adverse events."

A case of correlation does not imply causation.
 
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gortnipper

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Yeah, that is pretty much what I inferred and told my wife when she freaked out a bit. Darned low numbers...
 

Fast Eddie

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EU has just reported their findings on the AZ adverse events of blood clotting. They have concluded there was no increase with clotting in those vaccinated vs the general population. In fact the number of cases (some 20-30 cases in the EU out of 20+ million AZ vaccinations) was actually lower than in the unvaccinated population. Out of an abundance of caution, they cannot completely rule out an association with the vaccine and will be recommending a change in the vaccine package documentation to alert healthcare works on what to look out for.

According to the Chair of the review committee: "Approximately 100,000 people in the EU develop blood clots per month in the general population. Wide spread vaccination campaigns will always show temporal correlations to adverse events."

A case of correlation does not imply causation.
Exactly, hence the bus joke above!

As you say, the numbers of clots are actually LOWER than would be expected in a random population equivalent to the numbers vaccinated. So actually, the statics seem to show the vaccine reduces clots! It doesn’t of course, but it does go to show the ridiculous over caution shown here.

If this was some low level relatively unimportant vaccine then such caution would be perhaps justifiable. But it’s not, THOUSANDS are dying DAILY in the EU becasue of this virus, but they put the vaccine on hold (again) for 37 cases of blood clots. Basic maths tells us this is just ridiculous.

Worse still, this is the third big negative mass scare that EU politicians have caused around the Oxford vaccine. They have therefore now MASSIVELY eroded public trust in the vaccine. I assume that’s part of the reason they currently have MILLIONS of unused doses in storage!?

Just imagine having a loved one die of covid... in the knowledge there is a vaccine in storage with their name on gathering dust... Madness.

And it’s not me saying this stuff... it’s EU SCIENTISTS. They have been pretty unanimous in continually saying that the vaccine is safe and explaining that there is no logical biological link between the vaccine and blood clots.

The scientists are clear it’s good. The negativity, warnings, and bans are all from POLITICIANS.

Go figure...
 
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Good news on the vaccine front-got my first shot. I read yesterday that some long-haul Covid sufferers are seeing symptom improvements post-vaccination. Also read that those who have vaccine side effects many have unknowingly had the virus at sometime in the past. Supposedly millions more doses are headed to vaccinators and vaccination sites are increasing.

And not to get political (again) but as much as 47% of one party's adherents (you know, the science deniers, anti-maskers and anti vaxxers) are not getting vaccinated. Is this what they call Darwinism? I prefer not to rely on possible herd immunity to save my bacon.
 

Tornado

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It worries me that when I happen to make a positive comment on a news
video or online story regarding vaccine effort progress, I get inundated with many, many negative/hateful comments. I cannot imagine where these folks are crawling out from under. They will not listen to any scientific facts or go to the bother of following links I provide to published studies. They just will not have it dispel their ignorant views. It is some kind of badge of honour to they to be so stupid.
 
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Fast Eddie

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The AZ job is not ‘better than nothing’!

Its efficacy is at least as good as Pfizer.

It is very old and well proven technology (same tech as jabs you or I ever had as kids whereas the Pfizer is brand new synthetic technology) so if anything, it’s probably lower risk than the Pfizer.

The massive spike in the U.K. in Jan has come down as fast as it went up. In other EU countries it is now rocketing up. The only difference being the U.K.s massively successes jab roll out, with the AZ being the most used.

Getting my AZ Oxford jab this morning...
 
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Best order a curry while out getting your jab in case your
made in England Oxford jab was actually made in India !
 

Chris

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I'm in a unique position. Been on a course of very strong antibiotics as my general health has been so bad. Came off those on a Monday, vaccinated on Thursday, ill on Friday! Confirmed it was covid on Sunday! My doctor has been great. He arranged an oxygen saturation tester as it's a good guide to your health declining. All I can say is I am so pleased I had the anti biotics when I did. So pleased I had the vaccine however much it might have helped, because know one knows if they will have a mild case or will develop complications. I'm six weeks in, all the usual, banging headache, eyes that are so tired, slight vertigo, sleep like a good un & a slight cough. Its like the morning after the night before when your just desperate to get through the day because you know you will be fine the next morning. Only of course your not! I've accepted the eyes are going nowhere. The headache goes for days then comes back. Twenty hours sleeping a day did for my legs. I got up three times a day & did the stairs. I know the risks as I wear surgical stockings as I've had blood clots both legs, lung & heart, back from when I was twenty one. The silly cough so slight also comes back, it dropped my ribs on my lung.
Lately its been playing with my joints & muscles, been walking when I've felt able, chest is fine but been told I'm panting like an old man. Felt good for the last two days, I'm always cheerful but wondering where it might go next. I consider myself a mild case my son was back at work in a fortnight. Without vaccination this wont go away. We may need one every year but me I'm looking forward to racing! Maybe not till the end of the year but I've been invited to the Goodwood members meeting which has been delayed intill October so something to look forward to. Also Donington in August lol Hopefully back to work in another week, pottering about is so frustrating. Be lucky Chris
 

Fast Eddie

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Wow, sorry to hear that Chris, had no idea.

Chris if you’re not doing so already, you should at least be taking large, very large, daily amounts of vitamin C and vitamin D. Proven to help your body fight this thing.

Get well soon mate.
 
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Hi Chris

Likewise, I'm very sorry to hear about your poor health and now Covid.

Wish you all the best for a speedy recovery and back on your Nortons.

Staytite
 
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Best order a curry while out getting your jab in case your
made in England Oxford jab was actually made in India !
First they came, supposedly, from Belgium, now from India, don't know about you, but I'm getting confused!
 
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Sorry to hear about your problem Chris, but I wish you a speedy recovery and that your back on the bike soon.
 

Fast Eddie

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Bernhard, the completed vaccines are made in many factories, in many countries, around the world. The core active ingredients will probably be made in fewer facilities and exported accordingly.

The glass vials, needles, etc will all be made in yet more facilities and shipped / exported accordingly.

Supply chains will be quite complex, often with materials passing both ways in / out of regions.

This is why the EU threats of export bans really do not make a lot of sense, if countries that supply them reciprocate, then the EU won’t need to ban exports as they won’t be able to make any!

What‘s required (and to a large extent is already happening) is large govt support for manufacturers to maximise output, joined up global support for supply chains to allow the fastest possible un-obstructed flow of materials, it’s that kind of effort that’s gonna fix this thing... NOT imposing export bans!

I’ve worked a lot in pharmaceuticals and high volume manufacturing and supply chains, I think folk who haven’t might easily under estimate the unimaginable scale of this thing.
 
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First they came, supposedly, from Belgium, now from India, don't know about you, but I'm getting confused!
Pfizer comes from Belgium, AZ comes from UK and from India, never Belgium.

As an aside

The Pfizer made in Belgium for UK (but also made in US as it is a US company) uses a fatty chemical made by Croda in the UK which is in worldwide short supply, so the Head of the EU threatening the UK with an export ban has ignored that without the UK there would be no Pfizer made in Belgium for 8 months while a new fatty chemical factory was built if the UK Govt applied a counter export ban to EU. Croda would have plenty of non EU routes for sales, also the EU would loose the Croda input where they are assisting Pfizer in removing the need for storage at very low temperatures. This has not been made public by UK Govt in an attempt to keep the rhetoric low key, however the Belgium Govt is fully aware and acting accordingly.
 
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Pfizer comes from Belgium, AZ comes from UK and from India, never Belgium.

As an aside

The Pfizer made in Belgium for UK (but also made in US as it is a US company) uses a fatty chemical made by Croda in the UK which is in worldwide short supply, so the Head of the EU threatening the UK with an export ban has ignored that without the UK there would be no Pfizer made in Belgium for 8 months while a new fatty chemical factory was built if the UK Govt applied a counter export ban to EU. Croda would have plenty of non EU routes for sales, also the EU would loose the Croda input where they are assisting Pfizer in removing the need for storage at very low temperatures. This has not been made public by UK Govt in an attempt to keep the rhetoric low key, however the Belgium Govt is fully aware and acting accordingly.
Not to mention, of which it was widely discussed, the UK government put in an order to Pfizer a whole 3 months before the EU did anything, whilst they formed committees, sub committees, and then, several hundred rolls of bog paper later, depending where the EU are sitting (note I said sitting! meaning either Strasbourg or Brussels ) - they stood back whilst someone else put a big order in.
 
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Gadge

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Also in the pharma industry and agree with what FE and Kommando said above. Supply chains are massively complex. The knock on from the Covid vaccination programmes is that we're having to plan and order supplies e.g. for glass components like syringes, a couple of years ahead. Suppliers are flat out trying to cover Covid demand. Some suppliers were already struggling with capacity before Covid and were trying to get new plants up and running. There'll be lots of complexity and other surprises to deal with for at least a couple of years apart from the direct Covid stuff.

Politicians, of course, don't do complicated...
 
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