Protect yourself

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Hopefully the Defense Production Act here will speed things up. The Feddle Gummit has turned their focus to hospitals as the distribution warehouses, with vaccine doled out to smaller medical facilities, doctor's offices and only then to community-based grassroots vaccination efforts that have, so far, proved to be far more efficient.

I live in a county of just less than 35,000 souls with no hospitals that's surrounded by two metro areas with a dozen or more large hospitals and a smaller county with 2 hospitals. We really don't need one, but that leaves out county health department, who has been administering the paltry 400 doses per week they receive, sucking hind tit for supply.

Although they have begun serving Group 1B, the age limit was held at 85+ the first week. and now dropped to 75+. Still serving front-liners etc. but not the medically-vulnerable yet.
 

DevonNorton

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Andy as I’ve argued before and will continue to do so, yes you are quite right to point out that the govt did not follow sage advice at every step AND therefore locked us down later than sage would have liked.

But there are also those opposite, who advised against locking down when we did, and / or coming out of lock downs sooner, etc.

You are expressing dissatisfaction from ONE point of view. It is a fair point of view. But there are also others.

We should have closed all airport sooner say some. That’s not what the WHO said at the time and is not even what they’re saying now.

Govt has to try and balance all competing / conflicting inputs / priorities.

If we’d have obeyed sage every time we’d have been locked down none stop from last March to next summer!

If we’d listened to other we wouldn’t have locked down at all! (Not my belief at all BTW)

Govt has tried to find a balance as best they could at the time.

I’m just glad it wasn’t my job to call the shots!
I presented the excess deaths data in an attempt to answer earlier criticism of my post which made international comparisons which show the UK performance in handling the pandemic as being very poor. The number of excess deaths is a major indicator of how the UK government has completely mismanaged nearly every aspect of the pandemic. The only 'good' part is the vaccine supply and delivery which has been handled well and I hope it works.

Looking at the wider performance of the UK Government the combined effects on health and the economy are amongst the worst in the world.
Data on the Oxford University 'Our World in Data' site https://ourworldindata.org/covid-health-economy shows how poorly the UK has performed. I'll just show 2 graphs which say it all...

economic-decline-in-the-second-quarter-of-2020.png


q2-gdp-growth-vs-confirmed-deaths-due-to-covid-19-per-million-people.png

The UK Government has demonstrably not struck a good balance. It is not hindsight to say that we should have quarantined arrivals, tightened borders, contact traced and 'locked down' earlier and harder than we did it is 'Ladybird Book of Epidemiology' stuff. If we had done this there would have been a lower adverse impact on the economy, lower excess deaths and little or no impact on non-COVID urgent and routine medical procedures. Countries that have protected their population's health better have also suffered less adverse effects to their economies. Our government has not handled this pandemic well.
 

Fast Eddie

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There’s always two sides though Andy...

First let me say, on the broader topic, you may well be correct, I do not know. Personally, I don’t think anyone knows. And we may never know!

Second, you do realise those graphs are from Q2 2020? That’s when we were in full lock down. How can an economy go from a very healthy / active state to one of FULL lock down and NOT expect an economic dip?! My only surprise is that it was ONLY 21%. If we look at the longer period the picture is somewhat different:

1E5C6829-08F2-4274-98C5-70432A1888D0.png



But, even with those two pieces of data that you show as ‘proof’ there is another point of view, I would actually draw the opposite conclusion from the same data.

To me it shows just how impossible this situation has been. If the govt had locked down sooner / harder / more etc then the economic cost would have been exponentially worse. If they‘d done less the cost of life would have been worse. WHICHEVER way anyone says they should have gone more, the effect on the other would have been worse. In that way, it’s ‘proof’ the govt got a reasonable balance.

Note I said reasonable... ain‘t pretending it was / is perfect... but even there I know we’d disagree...

I do not agree that your list of stronger measures would have resulted in less economic impact at all. That would only have happened IF the virus could have been eradicated altogether. That was simply not possible because the virus was established here comfortably BEFORE anyone would have contemplated locking down as you suggest.

However, IMO we could have done a lot more that would have allowed us to lock down less. In particular I think schools should have remained open more, I believe the potential human cost of this in years to come is something we haven’t yet even begun to comprehend.

Its very interesting IMHO what politicians get praised / criticised for. The NZ PM today explained they will start vaccinating soon, 2021 is the year of the vaccination she said and it will take them the whole year to vaccinate their population. That’s HALF as many people as the U.K. has done in less than two months... but there was no criticism.
 
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DogT

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Hey, I got my first Moderna vaccine shot Tuesday. It was quick, got to the site for my appointment at 1245 and was out on the road home at 1330. Now for the second. Don't know why I was so lucky. Acutally they called couple weeks ago and my wife thought it was a junk call so she hung up, then they called a second time, she hung up again, so I called them right back and they said it was the Virginia Dept of Health, I said great..... Is that lucky or what?
 
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There’s always two sides though Andy...

First let me say, on the broader topic, you may well be correct, I do not know. Personally, I don’t think anyone knows. And we may never know!

Second, you do realise those graphs are from Q2 2020? That’s when we were in full lock down. How can an economy go from a very healthy / active state to one of FULL lock down and NOT expect an economic dip?! My only surprise is that is was ONLY 21%. If we look at the longer period the picture is somewhat different:

View attachment 21541


But, even with those two pieces of data that you show as ‘proof’ there is another point of view, I would actually draw the opposite conclusion.

To me it shows just how impossible this situation has been. If the govt had locked down sooner / harder / more etc then the economic cost would have been exponentially worse. If they‘d done less the cost of life would have been worse. WHICHEVER way anyone says they should have gone more, the effect on the other would have been worse. In that way, it’s ‘proof’ the govt got a reasonable balance.

Note I said reasonable... ain‘t pretending it was / is perfect... but even there I know we’d disagree...

I do not agree that your list of stronger measures would have resulted in less economic impact at all. That would only have happened IF the virus could have been eradicated altogether. That was simply not possible because the virus was established here comfortably BEFORE anyone would have complemented locking down as you suggest.

However, IMO we could have done a lot more that would have allowed us to lock down less. In particular I think schools should have remained open more, I believe the potential human cost of this in years to come is something we haven’t yet even begun to comprehend.

Its very interesting IMHO what politicians get praised / criticised for. The NZ PM today explained they will start vaccinating soon, 2021 is the year of the vaccination she said and it will take them the whole year to vaccinate their population. That’s HALF as many people as the U.K. has done in less than two months... but there was no criticism.
No such thing as getting a reasonable balance as far as loss of human life is concerned.
There was 2,500 people per day coming into the UK durning the "pandemic " with no testing carried out to check if they were virus free.
Now the UK government wants to put all arrivals into hotels to enforce quarantine.
It's taken a rather long time, if I may say so, for the government to grasp what the word pandemic means!!!
It's as if they were almost sitting on their hands. The trouble now, is that is of very little use of shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted.
The British public didn't help, there were people refusing to wear a face mask, throwing parties, and all sorts of shellaghas that has anyone looking on at trying to control this wave of a particular virus holding thir hands in despair.
 

Fast Eddie

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No such thing as getting a reasonable balance as far as loss of human life is concerned.
There was 2,500 people per day coming into the UK durning the "pandemic " with no testing carried out to check if they were virus free.
Now the UK government wants to put all arrivals into hotels to enforce quarantine.
It's taken a rather long time, if I may say so, for the government to grasp what the word pandemic means!!!
It's as if they were almost sitting on their hands. The trouble now, is that is of very little use of shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted.
The British public didn't help, there were people refusing to wear a face mask, throwing parties, and all sorts of shellaghas that has anyone looking on at trying to control this wave of a particular virus holding thir hands in despair.

I agree with much of that Bernhard, testing for travellers should have been in much earlier and policing of quarantine should have been much stronger. I believe the police have been used VERY incorrectly, harassing law abiding folk and deliberately taking an extreme view of laws and guidelines to enforce, whereas they should have been focusing on the more obvious / important stuff.

I also agree that people haven’t helped, but this is not so simple IMO. Folk who live in nice big houses, have great internet and devices for the kids for home schooling, have a nice garden to enjoy, live in an area with nice parks etc are having a VERY different lock down to those living in poorer areas, cramped flats, adults living with kids who are going rogue, kids living with adults that are alcoholic, abusive, etc. I find it incredible that those in the former groups sneer at those in the latter when they eventually, and inevitably ‘break’. That does NOT excuse many of course, but it should not be ignored.

It is a sad fact of life though that you cannot separate finance from trying to save life. So I disagree strongly about that, the money to protect life has to come from somewhere Bernhard, and that needs to be provided for by a healthy economy.
 
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Now it's been confirmed, the UK government will put everyone who is coming into this country in a hotel for 10 days, with a guard put upon you if you leave your room, but here's the rub, it won't come in effect until ten days time, which means there will be a huge scramble from anyone out at the moment to get back beforehand. Boarder Control will be getting busy again.
 

Fast Eddie

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There will indeed be a scramble Bernhard. But everyone in that scramble will have to show a negative PCR test result. So I don’t see a huge influx of covid carriers as highly likely, so I don’t think the reality is as concerning as the headline makes out.
 
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I've no idea why they make an announcement before it's put into place, but even with a PCR
result it gives an opportunity for some people to sneak in under the radar.
 

Fast Eddie

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I've no idea why they make an announcement before it's put into place, but even with a PCR
result it gives an opportunity for some people to sneak in under the radar.
Me neither.

Yes a small (very small indeed) number of arrivals will be false negative. Which is why I get frustrated by the failure to properly police people in their quarantine periods after arrival.
 

baz

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Some polish workers that work where I work were telling me that when they go back to Poland they absolutely have to self isolate
The police come randomly every day to check you are isolating
I can't remember if it was for 10 or 14 days
You basically show yourself at the window with your ID ,
And I believe this has been in place since the middle of last year
 
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Useless bit of historical information, the Chinese welded up the doors of people's houses in Wuhan, but it has been done before (sort of) when the plague was rife in the 1600s Queen Elizabeth 1st imposed a 40 day curfew and would execute rule breakers.
So, ..................
 

Fast Eddie

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Useless bit of historical information, the Chinese welded up the doors of people's houses in Wuhan, but it has been done before (sort of) when the plague was rife in the 1600s Queen Elizabeth 1st imposed a 40 day curfew and would execute rule breakers.
So, ..................
Bernhard, you appear to be suggesting that what the Chinese did was good.

Welding. Citizens. Into. Buildings.

Might be worth just thinking about that for a moment. And perhaps considering deleting that post...?
 
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Bernhard, you appear to be suggesting that what the Chinese did was good.

Welding. Citizens. Into. Buildings.

Might be worth just thinking about that for a moment. And perhaps considering deleting that post...?
It might have made people sit up and take notice!!
Just halfway across the Irish Sea the IOM jailed 13 people for not observing the reason for the lockdown, including the one who rode a water ski bike all the way from Scotland.
 
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At an illegal drinking party in Lancashire Police fined 10 people when they found a full bar setup, but the most bizarre find was the presence of two surprised sheep.
In a social media post a police sergeant said
" The obvious line is that the wool wasn't pulled over our eyes"
 
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Notice in a newspaper;
The EU is absolutely welcome to gain access to UK vaccines. It just needs to apply for membership of the UK, ensure it makes it's contribution to the Treasury and accepts supremacy of UK law.
 

Onder

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As this virus thing grinds on at least we are getting the option of a jab. If you don't want it I am ok with that. But seems to me at this point most will take it.
The blame game is tedious but I suppose unavoidable. Those in charge must be held to account. But one must ask just who is actually making the decisions? When will the economy reopen? Think of the towns that rely on visitors almost completely. Will these business even be able to reopen at this point?
Agree that if the economy goes bust the health system will go with it. Time to find a balance.
Oh I get my vax tomorrow morning.
 

gortnipper

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Auckland back in Level 3 lockdown.

Why?

Some joker who was a casual+l contact of the recent cluster developed symptoms on Tuesday, lost sense of smell on Weds, kept going out and about. Mall, school, gym, Burger King, etc.

Tested on Friday, went to gym afterward.

Test result positive.

According to protocol, they should have been self isolatingall along.

Thanks, dumb fuck.
 
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The UK prime minister Boris Johnson has accepted that it was a mistake to delay the start of the first national lockdown.
The PM has said he would act "harder, earlier and faster " if he had his time again.
 
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