Protect yourself

gortnipper

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
3,227
Country flag
Can somebody explain the logic of compulsory face masks while shopping (in ten days time, mind you), yet pubs and restaurants re-opening??
I would suggest our politicians 'road test' various masks on our behalf, to see which (if any) is best for stopping the crap coming out...
Or is that just me being cynical?
Yes it is! Because, as politicians, could you ever trust their 'findings'?!

Trust scientists, even if they are doing silly demos.

Bill Nye the Science Guy.

 
Joined
Mar 7, 2020
Messages
968
Country flag
Still don't see how you'll be able to eat and drink with it, though..... AND... Should anyone wish to be cantankerous, watch the candle flame whilst he's talking without masks. An argument could be made that it's not moving then?
 
Last edited:
Joined
Apr 20, 2011
Messages
4,794
Country flag
Still don't see how you'll be able to eat and drink with it, though..... AND... Should anyone wish to be cantankerous, watch the candle flame whilst he's talking without masks. An argument could be made that it's not moving then?
Or. . . . .he's not breathing. . . . .
 
Joined
Mar 7, 2020
Messages
968
Country flag
Or. . . . .he's not breathing. . . . .
Getting back to my original premise... I would not walk around the supermarket blowing on or at people, yet in a pub or restaurant I would expect to be doing other things that require my mouth being open (drinking, eating, talking.... hell... even laughing, maybe) Yet none of those can be done 'masked up'
Just smacks (yet again) of the powers that be rattling stable doors when they haven't a clue where the horse is.
Doubtless the best masks will be made by: Cummings/Gove Enterprises Ltd.
 
Joined
May 7, 2005
Messages
4,379
Country flag
Can somebody explain the logic of compulsory face masks while shopping (in ten days time, mind you), yet pubs and restaurants re-opening??
I can't, its very odd as its likely to keep people out of shop's and go online and the Govt has been recently trying to get people out and buying in restaurants and takeaway's via the 5% VAT. Not a problem for me, a local farm has an automated shop with only one person allowed in at a time so no mask required.
 

Fast Eddie

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Oct 4, 2013
Messages
12,599
Country flag
The WHO have said that the danger is only when being within 1 meter of an infected person, and that unless you’re sneezed on, coughed at, or spat at, you need to be in that 1 meter danger zone, with an infected person, for 15 minutes before you are at ‘significant risk’ of infection. And when you add to that the fact that far less than 1 in 1000 people are infected, and that most of those who are will be ‘out of circulation‘ and self isolating, it starts to paint a picture of very low probability.

Whilst I personally believe masks are a small price to pay, and are better than lock down, I do believe that their practical impact is exaggerated. Note: that does not make me an anti masker, it just means what it says, their practical impact on the virus spreading is low.

I also find it a tad ironic that the masks I’ve bought and am using are made in China...

So to answer the question, I fear that a big reason the govt is now enforcing masks is the age old political reason: to be seen to be doing something!
 
Joined
Mar 7, 2020
Messages
968
Country flag
The WHO have said that the danger is only when being within 1 meter of an infected person, and that unless you’re sneezed on, coughed at, or spat at, you need to be in that 1 meter danger zone, with an infected person, for 15 minutes before you are at ‘significant risk’ of infection. And when you add to that the fact that far less than 1 in 1000 people are infected, and that most of those who are will be ‘out of circulation‘ and self isolating, it starts to paint a picture of very low probability.

Whilst I personally believe masks are a small price to pay, and are better than lock down, I do believe that their practical impact is exaggerated. Note: that does not make me an anti masker, it just means what it says, their practical impact on the virus spreading is low.

I also find it a tad ironic that the masks I’ve bought and am using are made in China...

So to answer the question, I fear that a big reason the govt is now enforcing masks is the age old political reason: to be seen to be doing something!
Agreed.... But still seems conflicting (daft/stupid) to be opening (and actively encouraging) restaurant use, and no similar (though thoroughly unworkable) requirements for them or pubs...
 

Fast Eddie

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Oct 4, 2013
Messages
12,599
Country flag
Well I’ve not been ‘out’ to eat or drink yet so I don’t know how it works here. I was told be a friend in the US that masks are required when you enter a restaurant and a led to your table etc, but once seated masks can be removed, which kinda makes sense.

Pubs are another matter entirely though, maybe they rely on alcohol killing the COVID bacteria ?!
 

olympus

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Aug 5, 2017
Messages
1,086
Country flag
Lost for words on this one.....


A 30-year-old patient died after attending a “Covid party”, believing the virus to be a hoax, a Texas medical official has said.

“Just before the patient died, they looked at their nurse and said ‘I think I made a mistake, I thought this was a hoax, but it’s not,’” said Dr Jane Appleby, the chief medical officer at Methodist hospital in San Antonio.

Appleby said: “I don’t want to be an alarmist, and we’re just trying to share some real-world examples to help our community realise that this virus is very serious and can spread easily.”
A “Covid party” is a gathering held by somebody diagnosed with coronavirus to see if the virus is real and to see if anyone gets infected,
 

acadian

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Mar 5, 2010
Messages
1,093
Country flag
The WHO have said that the danger is only when being within 1 meter of an infected person, and that unless you’re sneezed on, coughed at, or spat at, you need to be in that 1 meter danger zone, with an infected person, for 15 minutes before you are at ‘significant risk’ of infection. And when you add to that the fact that far less than 1 in 1000 people are infected, and that most of those who are will be ‘out of circulation‘ and self isolating, it starts to paint a picture of very low probability.

Whilst I personally believe masks are a small price to pay, and are better than lock down, I do believe that their practical impact is exaggerated. Note: that does not make me an anti masker, it just means what it says, their practical impact on the virus spreading is low.

I also find it a tad ironic that the masks I’ve bought and am using are made in China...

So to answer the question, I fear that a big reason the govt is now enforcing masks is the age old political reason: to be seen to be doing something!
Ok, I'll counter.

The WHO is also dragging its feet on acknowledging what a growing body of research is indicating - that the virus is airborne in clinical terms (not in the colloquial sense). Masks are not a panacea, but they're the best defence that average joe's like you and me have at our disposal. The evidence shows that they do mitigate transmission, not perfectly, but nothing is. How they have become so f***ing politicized is going to be a historical curiosity that philosophers and historians will debate over in the future.

I do concede that governments are not pushing mandatory mask use to "save lives". I know this may sound nihilistic, but government makes decisions based on net cost vs external value. The fact is it costs the healthcare system a tremendous amount of money to treat/hospitalize people. The fears of over burdening the health system are real, and they're based on costs. It will/could bankrupt the system. It's actually cheaper for the system if someone dies at home (see Italy), then the family absorbs the lion's share of costs.
 
Joined
Mar 7, 2020
Messages
968
Country flag
Mind you.. Even the wording in the UK is a shambles. Headlines screaming 'Face Masks Mandatory', yet reading the small print it's 'face covering' that's being implemented, recommending the use of scarves or bandanas to cover the nose and mouth. And even frowning on the use of 'surgical quality' gear as this should be reserved for use by professionals in healthcare only...
 
Joined
Apr 27, 2015
Messages
1,629
Country flag
It's all a big gamble. If people wear masks it reduces rates of transmission... Does it eliminate it? A: no, but it slows infection rates. Personally, I don't wear a mask without gloves. If I feel I am going somewhere that has a much greater chance of exposure to the larger population, I wear gloves and a mask. I can't see the purpose of wearing a mask in high exposure areas without wearing gloves too. Mostly, that's the supermarket and the auto parts store... I don't really go much of anywhere else regularly that is a heavily trafficked public place.

Masks may also have a stigmatizing effect on those who would carry on in denial of the Covid19 virus, and behave in a way that would transmit the virus more readily. The fact that someone is wearing a mask and gloves, keeps other people from trying to "shake their hand" or "give them a hug" when they meet. It also signals that the person wearing the mask wishes others to practice social distancing...

As far as speculating on how "naturally" infectious Covid19 is, we don't know, because we've changed the natural transmission rate by wearing masks/gloves and social distancing. We've altered our behavior in an attempt to lower the transmission rate, so it would be hard to know what the natural rate would be...

Certainly, urban areas create a lot more casual exposure to other people just because of population density. The masks could physically do less than we imagine to prevent transmission, but they do signal a person's awareness to infection, and their possible adherence to safer behavioral practices. I wouldn't call them a placebo because I do think they work to some unknown extent, but I do think they work in an even greater capacity reinforcing the signal that modified human behavior will be required until the research defines how the changes in behavior will need to be modified.
 

DogT

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Messages
7,209
Country flag
Story on NPR this evening about masks and different countries. In Japan where they use masks nearly all the time and all people, the rate of infections is orders of magnitudes less than in the US or any other country that does not use masks. As far as I'm concerned, I believe what Dr. Fauchi says, not any politician. And it's a small price to pay. It does irritate me that people want to be self centered enough not to wear a mask, however, I just leave them plenty of extra space. The type of person I would typically avoid anyhow. But a 76, I'm opinionated. And it's time for this world to change for the better. As far as I'm concerned we can do better.
 

Fast Eddie

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Oct 4, 2013
Messages
12,599
Country flag
Dog, like I said already, I’m personally not an anti masker and do believe they are a small price to pay, in general, especially given that we have so few other choices in our arsenal to fight this thing.

I just also believe their impact is over stated. I believe it is deliberately over stated by Govts who can’t face telling us the truth: that we ain’t got nuthin else to fight this thing!

But please don’t perpetuate the myth of assuming that correlation equals causality. Saying “Japanese wear masks and have a low death rate equals proof that masks stop the spread” is wrong.

From what I’ve read, we don’t fully understand Japan’s ‘success‘ yet, but there are likely a number of factors, inc:

Masks: I agree it is definitely a factor. Apparently Japan started wearing masks in the 1918 flu pandemic, but unlike many countries, it carried on, anyone with a cold generally wears a mask, elderly or vulnerable people generally wear a mask, so is embedded into their culture. Hence mask wearing currently is probably as close to 100% as it gets.

Discipline: Japanese are super disciplined. Although there is no official lock down, many people are in a kind of self induced semi lock down still.

Health care system: Is generally considered to be excellent in Japan.

Higher immunity: There is a theory that Japan, along with other Asian countries like Korea, have been more exposed to similar viruses emerging from China over the years than we have, giving them a higher immunity to this one.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 7, 2010
Messages
3,931
Country flag
The WHO have said that the danger is only when being within 1 meter of an infected person, and that unless you’re sneezed on, coughed at, or spat at, you need to be in that 1 meter danger zone, with an infected person, for 15 minutes before you are at ‘significant risk’ of infection. And when you add to that the fact that far less than 1 in 1000 people are infected, and that most of those who are will be ‘out of circulation‘ and self isolating, it starts to paint a picture of very low probability.

Whilst I personally believe masks are a small price to pay, and are better than lock down, I do believe that their practical impact is exaggerated. Note: that does not make me an anti masker, it just means what it says, their practical impact on the virus spreading is low.

I also find it a tad ironic that the masks I’ve bought and am using are made in China...

So to answer the question, I fear that a big reason the govt is now enforcing masks is the age old political reason: to be seen to be doing something!
Doing something almost always brings more and better results than doing nothing. Recent testing has shown a sneeze of a cough can propel virus-laden water droplets up to 20 feet. Even a bandana can mitigate that somewhat. As far as a mask mandate, any law can be seen as government interference if it cramps your style. If it's a question of rights, what about the rights of others to be safe from you? Intelligent folks are masking as much as they can. Others don't gaf.
 

Fast Eddie

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Oct 4, 2013
Messages
12,599
Country flag
Not sure if you actually read my post or not Danno?

If so, you’ll note that I said I’m not anti masker. But, especially if all other rules are followed, mask effectiveness is over rated. That’s all I said.

However, your first sentence is something I passionately disagree with!

Doing ‘something’ is NOT bound to be better than doing nothing, not at all !

I dread to think where we’d be as a society if we all allowed our governments that kind of unchallenged free reign.
 
Joined
Nov 29, 2013
Messages
451
Country flag
If you have had a proper dose of it and been in the hospital, your outlook completely changes. Anyone can get it, anyone can die from it, gasping for breath,frightened to hell, off your head and without your family. Take it seriously before it takes you. its a bastard. I know.
 
Top