Priming oil pump & filling crankshaft

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trident sam

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For a long time I've dutifully followed the manual to prime the oil pump and feed line on my Mk 111 and fill the crank with oil via a syringe if the bike hasn't been used for a couple of months . I can see the point of the first bit , but is the second absolutely necessary ? it's no prob doing it just wondered.
sam
 
If sitting for a long time the concensus would be that the crank is full. However, in this regard putting some oil in the sump gives the pump something to draw on for retrurn. There ase 2 parts to the pump. High pressure feed to the head, and the like, and low pressure side to feed the return.
 
On the first start -like after a rebuild -I prime the oil system using a large syringe and feeding oil into the engine through the overhead oil line fitting on the timing chest. This fills the crank, oil pump and passages.

If the bike has been parked then everything will be primed as long as there is still enough oil in the tank to cover the pickup screen. If the pickup screen is not covered then I just put oil in the tank and wait overnight. Don't forget to drain the sump.
Gravity will do it's job and fill the pump and passages very effectively. Jim
 
I have a 1973 750 and I have drained all the oil, fitted a new filter, primed the oil feed and return but I do not get any oil coming back in the return pipe, when I kick it over I can hear the pump blowing air and a few spits of oil come through but nothing else ( I have ran the bike for a few minutes but because there is no oil return I dare not risk running it any longer) the bike was last run in 1984, apart from the new oil filter, it has a new clutch, new oil ,points, etc etc.
As I can hear the oil pump seeming to try and pump could it be that I have not primed it correctly or could the pump be blocked.
 
Duh dudes if already run in then just add 30 grade oil to tank to well cover the drain then put crank at BDC for a day then at TDC for a day then will have full crank and enough wet sump to splash cam lobes on first kick then go straight to 2000+ cam break in rpm no warm up babying or bad juju. Change oil after first good warm up and cool down re-torque then ride with the wind. Oil filter change after this first time run and checking inside it would be worth while to access how long may expect wind in face pleasure.
 
NORTONUP said:
I have ran the bike for a few minutes but because there is no oil return I dare not risk running it any longer
As I can hear the oil pump seeming to try and pump could it be that I have not primed it correctly or could the pump be blocked.
Click to expand...

If the feed side of the pump was working normally, then the contents of the oil tank would soon be pumped to the sump if the engine was running for a few minutes so the oil level should have dropped noticeably in that time if the feed side was operating normally? However, if the feed wasn't working, then the oil would remain in the oil tank and there would be little or nothing for the scavenge to return to the tank.
So, what happened to the contents of the oil tank, had the level dropped significantly by the end of the engine run-up or not?
 
I just did the same on my Norton which has the oil filter kit added. It does take longer than you would expect - 2 minutes - for the oil to begin to return. It shoots out sideways from the tube visible in the filler neck towards the rear of the bike. I think it takes a while to fill the sump and the filter cartridge after an oil change. There will be sputtering and not a solid stream.
 
On a last rebuild video'd with factory oil filter and crank oiled at TDC till oil seen out sump plug, started right up then straight to 2500ish > took about 30+ sec for oil spittle to show in tank and 43+ sec total to get constant oil flow that was well aerated foamy tanish looking for another minute. If just filled oil tank and left crank at TDC over time of posting likely self fill to over flow into sump even better than half filling form outside. My logic says on a first start after a lay up us thin 30 grade hi detergent to get flow everywhere fast and suspenses dust and blow by soot and old lube varnish then toss out for the gooder stuff. Only need the 50 grade when its fully hot and there ain't not way to get oil full hot w/o loading engine going by instruments, unless near red lined so plenty of thickness to get her first breathing cleared.
 
batrider said:
I just did the same on my Norton which has the oil filter kit added. It does take longer than you would expect - 2 minutes - for the oil to begin to return. It shoots out sideways from the tube visible in the filler neck towards the rear of the bike. I think it takes a while to fill the sump and the filter cartridge after an oil change. There will be sputtering and not a solid stream.
Click to expand...
+1 I was amazed at just how long it took to get oil from the return after all the oil lines and filter had been replaced. As the level continued to drop in the oil tank, I started to wonder where it was all going, but it finally made it back. Patience, Grasshopper.
 
This is like my 5th 1st start of rebuilt engine since last century and may not enjoy watching and listening as I was following my seasoned logic on rpm to surf lifter on cam, which is against my emotional self as much as anyone but stuffed them down and pleased I did as this rev right up practice as eliminated fuzz on the sump magnet. You can watch the time till i grab a light off the floor when I saw first hints of oil spittle return and by time I aimed light in it was full flowing but still foamy. I can stand the suspense anymore of over a min to see if engine is oiling well.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmiZ0QI18ks[/video]
 
NORTONUP said:
I have a 1973 750 and I have drained all the oil, fitted a new filter, primed the oil feed and return but I do not get any oil coming back in the return pipe, when I kick it over I can hear the pump blowing air and a few spits of oil come through but nothing else ( I have ran the bike for a few minutes but because there is no oil return I dare not risk running it any longer) the bike was last run in 1984, apart from the new oil filter, it has a new clutch, new oil ,points, etc etc.
As I can hear the oil pump seeming to try and pump could it be that I have not primed it correctly or could the pump be blocked.
Click to expand...


Re “apart from the new oil filter,”
Oil filters can take a while to fill up. I would expect about 2 minutes depending on the size of the oil filter.
Re “the bike was last run in 1984”
This is a long time for the engine to have remained unused, I would expect that the rubber type seal between the oil pump and timing cover has perished with age, so it would be worth a look and replacing with a new one unless you have already done it. :shock:
 
I left the bike as suggested and I am happy to say that the pump is now working great, the new oil that I put in now looks bloody terrible, now I know the pump is working well I will run it for 10 minutes or so and then change the oil again.
The oil pressure indicator light is on, what should I look for to eliminate any faults

Thanks to everyone for the help - this is a great forum.
 
NORTONUP said:
The oil pressure indicator light is on, what should I look for to eliminate any faults
Click to expand...

Commandos don't have an oil pressure light as standard. If you mean the red light, that is a charge warning light.
 
NORTONUP said:
Ok thanks you - do I feel dumb or what.
Click to expand...

Never mind. :wink:

If the charge warning lamp doesn't go out above idle, then either there's no alternator output or the warning light control (the assimilator) could be faulty (a fairly common problem) or it isn't connected correctly.
 
Thanks for the advice, what's the best way to check the alternator output, I normally just put a meter on the battery and see if the voltage increases when I rev the engine.
 
NORTONUP said:
Thanks for the advice, what's the best way to check the alternator output, I normally just put a meter on the battery and see if the voltage increases when I rev the engine.
Click to expand...
That'll tell you if the whole system's working correctly. On a fully charged battery with headlight off, you should hope to see the voltage rise to around 13.5 volts above 3000 rpm (give or take)
If not, refer to http://www.classicbike.biz/Norton/Repai ... mmando.pdf and scroll down to about page 163/Section J1 for a detailed explanation on component testing.
This should probably go into its own thread, and, beleive me, it's already been beat into the ground. Do a quick search...
Nathan
 
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