Power Coat or Paint?

While I'm looking for that project bike, I'd like to ask a few questions that have been on my mind. I'd like to hear the pro's and con's on powder coating vs painting the frame.

I assume most of you powder coated, but recently I read a post where the guy lamented having gone the power coat route. Seems the stuff created a lot of problems with excess coating in certain areas, even though he followed the article from Old Britts on prepping the frame.

My previous experience with powder coating was a tubular frame aircraft fuselage I built a few years back. The stuff is thick, to be sure, but it sure is tough! Later in my four year airplane project, I learned that the primary user of aviation grade chromoly tubing, the helicopter industry, NEVER uses powder coating. The problem for them is it cannot be properly inspected since small cracks can occur in the tubing beneath the powder coat. Now frame cracking may or may not be as big a deal on a motorcycle, but I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that the motorcycle industry powder coats their new bikes.

Another question. What might one expect to pay for a turnkey powder coat job in the USA? I have a friend who is a professional body man who is willing to paint whatever I need (unfortunately, he doesn't do powder coating), though I suspect I would be doing the stripping, sandblasting, etc.

So, what's the best way to go. . . Powder coat or paint?

Ditto here. I am about to get the frame and other parts powder coated for my 69 S. I have never been pleased with the enamel coating that doesn't seem to take any abuse at all, but is somewhat easier to repair. I would appreciate any comments on this before I go on with this project.

Dave
69 S basket case, but on the way to the road

My 2 cents worth, I prefer a good quality paint over powdercoat as paint can be touched up and polished to keep it looking new. Powder coat can't. Then again there's powder coat and there's powder coat, depends who does it.
My Mk3 was powder coated and it was a crap job, cracking and chipped and faded. Try and get it off though! Terrible stuff.
It's a personal thing, others will prefer PC, and there are some excellent rebuilds on this site using PC
Graeme.

I would powdercoat, but my powdercoater can do Petrol Tanks that look like a painted tank when finished so it does depend on who you use. I try other local powdercoaters by giving them seatpans etc from time to time but never had the finish of my current powdercoater in glasgow.

I've just (this weekend!) finished painting my MkIIA frame with 2-pack. It's almost too shiny, but I'm very pleased with it (I'll put a couple of pictures up later)
Another bike I'm working on had a powder coated frame, and it was a complete nightmare to strip, although I discovered that paint stripper was far more effective than sandblasting.
My issues with powdercoat are....
It never seems to be more than 80% gloss (where I've had it done, at least)
When it chips (and it does) its almost impossible to blend in new paint
I've found corrosion under the coating which would be quite far advanced before any evidence would be apparent on the surface
Its not helpful where a number of coated components need to be assembled due to the thickness of the coating.

Powder coating is, in general, the most durable finish, but I'm more interested in the quality of the finish, and this is why I prefer paint

Hello B+, I found the best way to get powder coat off was to use liberal amounts of the nastiest paint stripper available and wrap glad wrap (cling wrap,or whatever it's called elsewhere) around sections and let it sit. Then scrape the alien stuff off.
I had a powder coated frame sand blasted once and the frame weighed a lot less after it was stripped.
I didn't want to think how much metal was blasted of the frame.

B+Bogus said:

I've just (this weekend!) finished painting my MkIIA frame with 2-pack. It's almost too shiny, but I'm very pleased with it (I'll put a couple of pictures up later)
Another bike I'm working on had a powder coated frame, and it was a complete nightmare to strip, although I discovered that paint stripper was far more effective than sandblasting.
My issues with powdercoat are....
It never seems to be more than 80% gloss (where I've had it done, at least)
When it chips (and it does) its almost impossible to blend in new paint
I've found corrosion under the coating which would be quite far advanced before any evidence would be apparent on the surface
Its not helpful where a number of coated components need to be assembled due to the thickness of the coating.

Powder coating is, in general, the most durable finish, but I'm more interested in the quality of the finish, and this is why I prefer paint

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I found the same difficulty removing a previous powdercoat. The method recommended to me was to use a stripper and let it dry. It becomes very brittle and strips easily with sandblasting. Otherwise it's incredibly difficult to remove completely.
I don't know why powdercoating became so popular. I think maybe powdercoating is in favor is because it has a reputation for a certain resiliency. There's a tradeoff in gloss, that's for sure, but it also doesn't wear well. Like on the front facing surfaces of downtubes, for instance. I've seen everything you mention time and again. One thing I really don't like about powdercoat is buildup around edges. It looks like lawn furniture. I've had four frames powdercoated and its time to try something like a polyurethane over epoxy primer.

GRM 450 said:

Hello B+, I found the best way to get powder coat off was to use liberal amounts of the nastiest paint stripper available and wrap glad wrap (cling wrap,or whatever it's called elsewhere) around sections and let it sit. Then scrape the alien stuff off.
I had a powder coated frame sand blasted once and the frame weighed a lot less after it was stripped.
I didn't want to think how much metal was blasted of the frame.

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That's pretty much how I ended up doing it apart from the cling wrap - 3 sessions with the heaviest-duty Nitromors paint stripper followed an hour or so later with the power-washer got the job done 8)

bpatton said:

I found the same difficulty removing a previous powdercoat. The method recommended to me was to use a stripper and let it dry. It becomes very brittle and strips easily with sandblasting. Otherwise it's incredibly difficult to remove completely.
I don't know why powdercoating became so popular. I think maybe powdercoating is in favor is because it has a reputation for a certain resiliency. There's a tradeoff in gloss, that's for sure, but it also doesn't wear well. Like on the front facing surfaces of downtubes, for instance. I've seen everything you mention time and again. One thing I really don't like about powdercoat is buildup around edges. It looks like lawn furniture. I've had four frames powdercoated and its time to try something like a polyurethane over epoxy primer.

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I like the 'lawn furniture' analogy...I'll be quoting that one

With mine, once I'd got rid of the powdercoat, I blasted it with aluminium oxide grit, which is very mild, and doesn't seem to remove any metal, and coated it with a 2-part epoxy etch primer immediately after blasting. This primer is pretty good at building up where old rust scars had left minor imperfections, and these sanded back just great for the topcoat.

Stove enamel the best way to go, if you can afford it, in my opinion.
Powder coat is what I do coz it is cheap...esp when you know a girl in the the trade...
But the problem is it cannot be touched up and also it can crack and rust starts under the crack.
Stove enamal is also the best finish.....but the cost....

My frame had previously been powder coated but was looking rough. The guy where I took it to get abrasive blasted said he heated the coating slightly so it would come off. I'm going back on with epoxy primer and Imron. Holy cow that crap is expensive. Just the paint was over $200.

A quart of Dupont Imron black sells for $79 at my supplier. The hardener is $59. How much paint and what color did you buy? No doubt the primer, color, and hardenders would run that much. $100 doesn't buy much at the ol' paint store anymore

I guess it all depends who is doing the work, how good they are prepping your frame and basically how good they are at what they do whether it be a painter or powder coating firm.

I'd like to lynch the guy that powder coated my frame. It's starting to lift in spots. I called and complained and the guy blew me off. Not much I can do except toss a brick or two through the front window of his shop until I feel that the insurance deductibles he pays are equal to the amount I paid for crappy work. In my mind the guy might as well have stolen the money from me.

All things considered, IMO a two part epoxy primer and polyurethane paint is probably the better choice. It's not that difficult to do yourself. Any runs are easily sanded out and shined up. Repairing chips or scratches are no problem. I've never had fit up issues with a painted frame.

JimC said:

All things considered, IMO a two part epoxy primer and polyurethane paint is probably the better choice. It's not that difficult to do yourself. Any runs are easily sanded out and shined up. Repairing chips or scratches are no problem. I've never had fit up issues with a painted frame.

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My next project, the frame will be painted.

When I bought my basket case, the PO had already powder-coated the frame and a few other parts. The frame has a few nicks and minor dents that I would have fixed before finishing, but too late, now. I personally would not powder-coat. There is so much more flexibility in color and finish with paint, along with the ease of touch-up, that I feel paint is the superior way to go.

I don't know why powdercoating became so popular.

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Simple. It's a very "green" process. No organic solvents into the atmosphere. Electrostatic spray application means little to no overspray. No prime coating. Cleanup is a broom and vacuum.

My company supplies powder to Harley, from frames to clearcoat. Their decision was purely financial. No waste disposal issue, no problems with the local air quality board.

As far as durability. As was mentioned earlier, there is powder and there is powder. The same as in liquid paint. And as in liquid paint, preparation is key. Most reputable powder shops will blast the work just prior to application (unless it is fresh metal).

A good polyurethane or epoxy liquid paint on a properly prepared surface is just as durable as any powder. I prefer paint to powder on my frames.

JimC said:

A quart of Dupont Imron black sells for $79 at my supplier. The hardener is $59. How much paint and what color did you buy? No doubt the primer, color, and hardenders would run that much. $100 doesn't buy much at the ol' paint store anymore

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I'm speaking off the top of my head so I may be off on the cost. I got a quart of black and a quart of hardener. Believe the mix is 2 parts paint to 1 hardener, they said a pint wasn't available. Anyway, I want to be able to apply it myself.

It is interesting to see that a number of you guys agree with me. I have one powder coated frame and it has been a bear to touch up, you have to do a whole frame rail and try to blend it. The PC is also fading and I hope I'm dead when it needs to be stripped.
If you actually use a bike it is going to get nicks and chips. I think bikes I ride tend to be rock magnets on the freeway, good thing most of my paint jobs have a few years on them now.
Personally I think powder coating has been a fad, seems like a great idea doesn't it? The project i'm working on now gets a painted frame and all painted parts, in ten years whoever is re-restoring won't hate me.

Cookie said:

Personally I think powder coating has been a fad, seems like a great idea doesn't it?

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Maybe a fad for bike restoration but it's crucial for real manufacturers.

Can anyone say anything good about PC?

Dave