Plastic swing arm bush "upgrade" (with pics) (2015)

383wss

Joined
Mar 4, 2015
Messages
49
Hey guys, just wanted to share what I did this weekend in case any one else was curious about the plastic bushings for the norton commando. I was torn for a while about installing and there wasn't much experience shared on here regarding these but I'm always into trying new tech, especially when it's materials. I'm mechanically capable and I have the tools so I don't mind finding out for myself if somethings are worth the hype. Luckily I own a 12 ton press which made putting this together a lot easier than it could have been. I had to make sure I taped everything carefully as to not ding away any powder coating and even that didn't prevent some scuffs. I purchased the bushings which are made to the spindle provided. They were, right out of the box, very tight fitted. I had to use my dremel to clean off some powder coating on the mating surface of the swing arm. A little 140 weight and they pressed in just fine. Slipping the swing arm on the cradle was another story though. It looked as if I required about 1mm of clearance but a little silicone grease and it slipped right in there. Nice tight fight too. finally the spindle, it dropped in quite nicely very firm fit too. aligning the swingarm with the cradle was a little annoying but it went in fine. everything is very firmly fit but able to move. I live in the San Fernando valley and I have canyons to all sides of me so this will be put to the test when done. I can't wait to give you guys more feedback on this.
Plastic swing arm bush "upgrade" (with pics) (2015)

Plastic swing arm bush "upgrade" (with pics) (2015)
 
383wss said:
Hey guys, just wanted to share what I did this weekend in case any one else was curious about the plastic bushings for the norton commando. I was torn for a while about installing and there wasn't much experience shared on here regarding these but I'm always into trying new tech, especially when it's materials. I'm mechanically capable and I have the tools so I don't mind finding out for myself if somethings are worth the hype. Luckily I own a 12 ton press which made putting this together a lot easier than it could have been. I had to make sure I taped everything carefully as to not ding away any powder coating and even that didn't prevent some scuffs. I purchased the bushings which are made to the spindle provided. They were, right out of the box, very tight fitted. I had to use my dremel to clean off some powder coating on the mating surface of the swing arm. A little 140 weight and they pressed in just fine. Slipping the swing arm on the cradle was another story though. It looked as if I required about 1mm of clearance but a little silicone grease and it slipped right in there. Nice tight fight too. finally the spindle, it dropped in quite nicely very firm fit too. aligning the swingarm with the cradle was a little annoying but it went in fine. everything is very firmly fit but able to move. I live in the San Fernando valley and I have canyons to all sides of me so this will be put to the test when done. I can't wait to give you guys more feedback on this.
Plastic swing arm bush "upgrade" (with pics) (2015)

Plastic swing arm bush "upgrade" (with pics) (2015)
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thanks for this, I'm waiting to receive the set I've ordered (just the bushings, no spindle). How long was your shipping time?
 
It wasn't long, maybe a week to Los Angeles. I wasn't in a hurry. The plastic is very hard and smooth I was very impressed how fitting was too. very firm! I used 140 on install and I plan to lube like the stock setup but I understand anti-seize will work fine.
 
383wss said:
It wasn't long, maybe a week to Los Angeles. I wasn't in a hurry. The plastic is very hard and smooth I was very impressed how fitting was too. very firm! I used 140 on install and I plan to lube like the stock setup but I understand anti-seize will work fine.
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interesting, my whole intent with these is to avoid the lubing altogether and eliminate the spindle oil leaks (except for the anti seize at setup)
 
right, anti-seize is not a problem with these. just make sure you get it all over. i put 140 in mine and the tolerances are tight it hasn't leaked out yet. I'm sure it'll seep but the thought that I can use the fill hole to refill sort of puts my mind at ease.
 
I'm a little skeptical as to how plastic bushings can be considered an upgrade compared to bronze bushings. Years ago, I had a Kawasaki 500 H1 that came from the factory with plastic swingarm bushings and it felt like it had a hinge in the middle until I replaced them with some custom-made bronze bushings.
 
you can check ebay for the bushes. I've also seen others on a couple of sites but it seem people do low quantity runs. Like I mentioned before, i will gladly update here on wear of these bushes. The cradle mating surface is also a lot wider. I understand it can be a bit of an eye sore if you're a purist but it's amazing how tight they are not the slightest wiggle from that swing arm. Also they're meant to be used without the inner o'ring which can also close tolerances. Keep you guys posted.
 
Have seen these and thought about it, but at the price compared to the original 'oilite' style bearings I can't see a reason to change to the plastic style as it is not clear what advantage (mileage, cost, wear) there would be on my MK3.
On my Puch 175 SVS the swing arm bearings are plastic as standard and the ones I swapped out were still good after 50 years. Personally, I would assemble them dry without any lube, unless you know for certain that the lube over time will not affect the material they are made of.
 
Madnorton said:
Have seen these and thought about it, but at the price compared to the original 'oilite' style bearings I can't see a reason to change to the plastic style as it is not clear what advantage (mileage, cost, wear) there would be on my MK3.
On my Puch 175 SVS the swing arm bearings are plastic as standard and the ones I swapped out were still good after 50 years. Personally, I would assemble them dry without any lube, unless you know for certain that the lube over time will not affect the material they are made of.
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seller recommends using anti seize on setup, afterwards no lube necessary
 
Antiseize is like a metal paste -- soft metals suspended in a grease base. Possibly these particles could become imbedded in the plastic bushings. But they are softer than the steel pin so probably nothing to be concerned with. The only other time I've heard of using antiseize on moving parts is on bench vise slides and some use it on the threaded spindles too. (Another hobby but much simpler.)

You say it is tight. Will your swingarm drop down under its own weight?
 
Danno said:
I'm a little skeptical as to how plastic bushings can be considered an upgrade compared to bronze bushings. Years ago, I had a Kawasaki 500 H1 that came from the factory with plastic swingarm bushings and it felt like it had a hinge in the middle until I replaced them with some custom-made bronze bushings.
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There are some amazing plastics available now. They are commonly using for suspension bushings for cars so a swingarm is nothing.

But if they cheat and use a cheap plastic it could go bad.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Norton-Commando ... cd&vxp=mtr
 
batrider said:
Antiseize is like a metal paste -- soft metals suspended in a grease base. Possibly these particles could become imbedded in the plastic bushings. But they are softer than the steel pin so probably nothing to be concerned with. The only other time I've heard of using antiseize on moving parts is on bench vise slides and some use it on the threaded spindles too. (Another hobby but much simpler.)

You say it is tight. Will your swingarm drop down under its own weight?
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no it won't drop I have to move it by hand. very firm with no lateral movement. the bushing face is significantly wider. The antiseize being a metal paste is also why i opted for the 140 oil. also a personal guarantee that I can lube it easier too using the original method.
 
If you use a steel pivot pin dry or with no oil due to not refilling it often enough in time rust will form. This causes expansion of the pin (just like in reinforced concrete when it brakes apart) and a rough surface that eats the bush be it plastic (i once had RD350YPVS that did just that) or metal. I have just renewed my bushes and pin with original type and have a tight fit just the same as your new plastic type. The oil is not only to lubricate but to prevent rust so it is important to keep up with adding it regularly.
Or you could try a stainless pin but just as with the plastic type used to make the bushes if the wrong type of stainless is used then thing could go badly wrong in this highly stressed and vitality important fixing.
 
toppy said:
If you use a steel pivot pin dry or with no oil due to not refilling it often enough in time rust will form. This causes expansion of the pin (just like in reinforced concrete when it brakes apart) and a rough surface that eats the bush be it plastic (i once had RD350YPVS that did just that) or metal. I have just renewed my bushes and pin with original type and have a tight fit just the same as your new plastic type. The oil is not only to lubricate but to prevent rust so it is important to keep up with adding it regularly.
Or you could try a stainless pin but just as with the plastic type used to make the bushes if the wrong type of stainless is used then thing could go badly wrong in this highly stressed and vitality important fixing.
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Exactly! once it begins to wear it will wear exponentially. Whether it's a rusted pin or lack of lube or ovalized pin tube, once that first wear develops it will surely get worse and fast. I understand that Kegler mod is sort of a way to prevent exponential wear, to keep it from shimming back and fourth once wear has already developed. Regardless everything needs maintenance. I'm all ears once someone develops a part or material that doesn't require a careful eye over time.
 
toppy said:
If you use a steel pivot pin dry or with no oil due to not refilling it often enough in time rust will form. This causes expansion of the pin (just like in reinforced concrete when it brakes apart) and a rough surface that eats the bush be it plastic (i once had RD350YPVS that did just that) or metal. I have just renewed my bushes and pin with original type and have a tight fit just the same as your new plastic type. The oil is not only to lubricate but to prevent rust so it is important to keep up with adding it regularly.
Or you could try a stainless pin but just as with the plastic type used to make the bushes if the wrong type of stainless is used then thing could go badly wrong in this highly stressed and vitality important fixing.
Click to expand...

Can you elaborate on how, with the stock setup, the swingarm pin receives lubrication in the cradle bore? I'm curious because, with no pressure or rotational inertia to get the oil that's on the inside, all the way to the outside of the pin in the cradle? I don't see anywhere for the oil to go but into the bushes through the two drain holes on the ends, and then to floor from the failed o-ring/dished washer combo.
 
There is no provision for positive oiling of the cradle bore other than the hope so seeps through. But the locating bolt or later pins mean the pin does not rotate in the cradle so should not cause ware. In fact as many owners have found it seizes in.
As with other area of the bike it is a bit of a flawed design an some would put this down to the company's need to put this bike into production as a short term stop gap model in order to stay live. Others may say it shows how the bike has become a leasure play thing as with most modern day machines in that it is not a practical solution to long term day to day all weather use. I have just start rebuilding a 1960 AJS for a friend an that is loaded with grease nipples on all its moving parts an many other useful features for daily use but it definitely lacks the certain something that may Roadster has even though they are both British and even the same colour. So there is something for the style over practicality argument also.
 
383wss said:
Hey guys, just wanted to share what I did this weekend in case any one else was curious about the plastic bushings for the norton commando. I was torn for a while about installing and there wasn't much experience shared on here regarding these but I'm always into trying new tech, especially when it's materials. I'm mechanically capable and I have the tools so I don't mind finding out for myself if somethings are worth the hype. Luckily I own a 12 ton press which made putting this together a lot easier than it could have been. I had to make sure I taped everything carefully as to not ding away any powder coating and even that didn't prevent some scuffs. I purchased the bushings which are made to the spindle provided. They were, right out of the box, very tight fitted. I had to use my dremel to clean off some powder coating on the mating surface of the swing arm. A little 140 weight and they pressed in just fine. Slipping the swing arm on the cradle was another story though. It looked as if I required about 1mm of clearance but a little silicone grease and it slipped right in there. Nice tight fight too. finally the spindle, it dropped in quite nicely very firm fit too. aligning the swingarm with the cradle was a little annoying but it went in fine. everything is very firmly fit but able to move. I live in the San Fernando valley and I have canyons to all sides of me so this will be put to the test when done. I can't wait to give you guys more feedback on this.
View attachment 62132
View attachment 62133
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hi, i know this is an old thread but i was hoping you'd leave a comment on what you thought of these bushes with a side of hind sight ... did they loosen up a bit over time? i've just fitted a set & they are scarily tight (swing arm moves with a bit of force)
thanks
j0hn
 
johntr7 said:
hi, i know this is an old thread but i was hoping you'd leave a comment on what you thought of these bushes with a side of hind sight ... did they loosen up a bit over time? i've just fitted a set & they are scarily tight (swing arm moves with a bit of force)
thanks
j0hn
Click to expand...

Member 383wss was last seen in April 2016 on here. Maybe sending a PM would work?​

 
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