Over coated

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jamesp

jamesp

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I have recently began the task of resurrecting my 1974 MK IIa which was hit by a red light runner. Luckily I survived, but the bike not so well. I am new at restoring Nortons and have already hit a snag for which I need some advice. After having the frame straightened, I took it for powdercoating. Unfortunately, I did not see the Old Brits article on what to blank before taking the parts in. The powder coater said he knew what to do, but he did not blank everything as shown in the Old Brits article. He did blank the areas where the neck bearings, isolastics, and swing arm spindles goes. Mainly, he did not blank the bolt holes, or the area needed for the isolastic end caps. I have already filed the end cap areas, I’m just wondering if I should continue to file fit everything, or take back the cradle and attaching parts for stripping and redoing? I don’t intend to redo the frame, I can file those areas. The problem I have with the Old Brits method is that I can see how rust can start around the areas where the bolts and washers attach if the PC and fasteners don’t match up exactly. I’m just wondering what you guys with more assembly experience would do? Thanks, and sorry if this has already been covered before.
 
I would just put it together as is, if everything fits.
If not, you can probably lightly tap the hard parts into place with a rubber mallet.
Can retorque the fasteners a few times after you get it running, then use blue loctite.
No big deal.
 
powder coat between the cradle and engine and cradle and bolts,nuts will NEVER stay tight no mater how much lock tight is used. I am pretty much over with the powder coat craze.
 
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Bill is bang on. The powder will crush and allow fasteners to come un torqued, when this happems to the cradle you end up cracking / breaking the crank case around the stud holes. This is not theoretical blah, blah!

Keep it all as is, but get a dremel or similar and remove the powder coat from ALL mating surfaces / mounting points. When you’ve done just give those areas a thin coat of black spray paint.
 
Over coated

It's not an answer you want to read but remove all the powdercoat and have it painted.
My crankcases were nearly scrapped due to powdercoat. A previous restorer had the frame and cradle powdercoated. Over the course of a few years the fixings were re-tightened but the damage was already done. It required three of the crankcase mounting points to be built up and milled.
I'm done with powdercoat, I'd rather rattle can it myself than use it again.
 
Wow, very conflicting suggestions! I appreciate them all. I tried, not too hard, to find a local painter in my central coast area, but went with PC as recommended by WASCO who straightened the frame, and some others. I have had good luck with powdercoated parts on auto restorations, but they do not fit as tightly or have so much vibration.
 
Dommie Nator said:
View attachment 19882
It's not an answer you want to read but remove all the powdercoat and have it painted.
My crankcases were nearly scrapped due to powdercoat. A previous restorer had the frame and cradle powdercoated. Over the course of a few years the fixings were re-tightened but the damage was already done. It required three of the crankcase mounting points to be built up and milled.
I'm done with powdercoat, I'd rather rattle can it myself than use it again.
Click to expand...
a friend had VW campervan wheels coated, only for one to work loose and go bowling ahead down the road... you have been warned!
 
I hate powder as much as anyone on here, and have written about it before.

But one bike came to me with a powdercoated cradle, swingarm and frame, and is doing just fine with the factory serrated washers, and blue locktite. And the powder on this bike was NOT removed from the surrounding hole surfaces.

Maybe somebody can comment on whether Andover's new cradles are painted or powder coated?
Looks like powder to me.

Over coated



Post some close up pics of the powder on your cradle's edges. I say make your decision based on the hardness of the material and how thick they put it on.
Bike-recommended places can put powder on lightly these days.
 
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elefantrider said:
I hate powder as much as anyone on here, and have written about it before.

But one bike came to me with a powdercoated cradle, swingarm and frame, and is doing just fine with the factory serrated washers, and blue locktite. And the powder on this bike was NOT removed from the surrounding hole surfaces.

Maybe somebody can comment on whether Andover's new cradles are painted or powder coated?
Looks like powder to me.

Over coated



Post some close up pics of the powder on your cradle's edges. I say make your decision based on the hardness of the material and how thick they put it on.
Bike-recommended places can put powder on lightly these days.
Click to expand...
I did buy a new cradle from Andover and it was powder coated. The only bare spots on it were where the swing arm pivots. When I took all the parts to the powder coater, I showed him the new cradle as I wanted all the paint to match. The Andover powder coating had orange peel with some scratches, so I had it redone as I wanted everything to match. I don’t believe it was as thick as the new PC, but all the bolt holes had PC. I think Dremeling the hole areas, as suggested before, may be the best solution.
 
I would try a Nord-Lok washer if the powder is not too thick.

www.nord-lock.com

Nord-Lock Wedge-Locking Technology

Nord-Lock wedge-locking technology secures bolted joints with tension instead of friction. The system is composed of a pair of lock washers with cams on one side and radial teeth on the other.
www.nord-lock.com www.nord-lock.com


I don't know why Andover supplies flat washers in their kit.
The original Commando's I've taken apart all had serrated lock washers here.

The Nord-lok is a modern and reusable version of the serrated washer.

Over coated
 
I had this conversation over 15 years ago with an enginer at lockheed martin as to powder coat on parts. his answer was to NEVER have it between any interface as it will under vibration act like a liquid and allow the parts to move. the other draw back to powder is trying to repair it when you get chips in it. powder coat is for lawn chairs
 
elefantrider said:
I would try a Nord-Lok washer if the powder is not too thick.

www.nord-lock.com

Nord-Lock Wedge-Locking Technology

Nord-Lock wedge-locking technology secures bolted joints with tension instead of friction. The system is composed of a pair of lock washers with cams on one side and radial teeth on the other.
www.nord-lock.com www.nord-lock.com


I don't know why Andover supplies flat washers in their kit.
The original Commando's I've taken apart all had serrated lock washers here.

The Nord-lok is a modern and reusable version of the serrated washer.

Over coated
Click to expand...
Do you know if the washers are available separately? I already have some new stainless fasteners. Thank you for your suggestions.
 
elefantrider said:
I would just put it together as is, if everything fits.
If not, you can probably lightly tap the hard parts into place with a rubber mallet.
Can retorque the fasteners a few times after you get it running, then use blue loctite.
No big deal.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your suggestion.
 
elefantrider said:
I would try a Nord-Lok washer if the powder is not too thick.

www.nord-lock.com

Nord-Lock Wedge-Locking Technology

Nord-Lock wedge-locking technology secures bolted joints with tension instead of friction. The system is composed of a pair of lock washers with cams on one side and radial teeth on the other.
www.nord-lock.com www.nord-lock.com


I don't know why Andover supplies flat washers in their kit.
The original Commando's I've taken apart all had serrated lock washers here.

The Nord-lok is a modern and reusable version of the serrated washer.

Over coated
Click to expand...
Those are Brilliant!!!
 
James, Nord-lock washers are designed to stop fasteners vibrating loose.

That’s not your problem here...

Powder coat doesn’t make fasteners unscrew. It compresses so that the fasteners are no longer applying the required clamping force to the surfaces being clamped, this is the same effect as if they’d been unscrewed, but they haven’t.

On top of that, as Bill points out, it effectively creates a ‘soft joint’ which is not good in a structural application.

Powder coating can be applied correctly (I believe cNw use powder coating for example) but it is heavily dependant on the guy pulling the trigger and not what the guy in the office promises ! Trouble is, you won’t know till it’s done... then it’s already too late... !
 
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If you have ever worked on heavy equipment you will very quickly learn where you have 2 structural parts bolted together the FIRST thing that you need for them to stay tightly together is a CLEAN FLAT surface. show me a bulldozer with powder coat on arias where major structural parts mate.
 
I am going to find a way to remove the powder coating in the sensitive areas, and probably use the serrated washers, as well. My motor and tranny are now being worked over by CNW and I want them to be properly fitted. Thank you for all the comments so far. Any others ideas or hints on how to remove the PC in a workmanlike fashion will be appreciated.
 
elefantrider said:
I hate powder as much as anyone on here, and have written about it before.

But one bike came to me with a powdercoated cradle, swingarm and frame, and is doing just fine with the factory serrated washers, and blue locktite. And the powder on this bike was NOT removed from the surrounding hole surfaces.

Maybe somebody can comment on whether Andover's new cradles are painted or powder coated?
Looks like powder to me.

Over coated



Post some close up pics of the powder on your cradle's edges. I say make your decision based on the hardness of the material and how thick they put it on.
Bike-recommended places can put powder on lightly these days.
Click to expand...
 
I am just getting ready to strip down my 71 for complete overhaul .
I did not plan to powdercoat any parts.
can someone recommend the correct paint to use ..
a single stage ?
a two part epoxy paint ?
an Imron paint ?
and should I corrosion proof the frame with maybe a zinc chromate ?
open to suggestions to tell my painter what I want .
 
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