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Only Boeing?

Discussion in 'Access Norton Pub' started by Bernhard, Jul 30, 2019.

  1. Bernhard

    Bernhard

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2011
  2. Eljahara

    Eljahara VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2018
    Simply really
    Kerchiiing!
     
  3. grandpaul

    grandpaul VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2008
    Institute a computer over-ride with cables and pulleys.

    Let the pilot fly the plane.
     
  4. Paul W

    Paul W VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Airbus Industries must be rubbing their hands together in anticipation of deflected orders?
     
  5. Eljahara

    Eljahara VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2018
    Hey, lets not get too radical!
    you will be advocating motorcycles without ECU next....
     
    grandpaul likes this.
  6. lazyeye6

    lazyeye6 VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2014
    Yes, quite true. But watch! As the noose tightens Airbus' peccadillos will come to the fore.
     
  7. kommando

    kommando

    Joined:
    May 7, 2005
    It was an Airbus Air France plane that crashed mid Atlantic when the sensor tubes froze, they had redundancy (double or triple ?) but all the sensor tubes froze and then sent the wrong info to the pilots via the computer. Somehow that ended up being the second pilots fault as the senior pilot was asleep and entered the cockpit too late to intervene.
     
  8. Bernhard

    Bernhard

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2011
    Bit like the Boeing 737 plane that happened to crash at the side of the M1 while attempting to make an emergency landing at East Midlands Airport on 8 January 1989.
    after investigation it was found that Boeing had wired the fire alarm from the port engine to the starboard warning light, and vice-versa. Further investigations found several more planes were the same, the pilot got the blame on this occasion for shutting down the wrong engine, because he was expendable- just like Boeing blames the Pilot of the Max who was corrected 20 times by the computer before he crashes losing all on broad.

    Captain Hunt and First Officer McClelland, both seriously injured in the M1 crash, were dismissed following the criticisms of their actions in the AAIB report.Hunt suffered injuries to his spine and legs in the crash. In April 1991 he told a BBC documentary: "We were the easy option—the cheap option if you wish. We made a mistake — we both made mistakes — but the question we would like answered is why we made those mistakes."
    The Boeing CEO stated that the 737 was a safe plane- yes it was- until they fitted the more modern engine which buggered up the balance of the pane which was designed for the older engine!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kegworth_air_disaster
     
  9. Bernhard

    Bernhard

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2011
    Boeing 737 Max: What went wrong?

    the BBC made a whole 30 min program about how Boeing go around the FAA flight testing when upgrading the 737 to 737 Max, and still the management won’t admit to sending these planes out-even though they knew they had a flaw.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-47553174
     
  10. Time Warp

    Time Warp .......back to the 70's. VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2012
    Under some conditions, a tennis ball hanging from a string attached to the cockpit ceiling might be handy.

    There was a time when the pilot was there to fly the plane because he could and was payed to do so because he wanted to.

    #

    Remember the Ford Pinto ?

    Someone made that executive decision to do nothing when the problem was identified, someone did the same at Boeing ?
    #

    I have spent plenty of time flying to work in 737's and A320's, the 737 is a great old 'plane (The cabin crew would say the single serving isle is a PITA) but Boeing tried to make something that had worked and made profit into something it could not be without problems and they will pay the price for that, not only in sales that keep the company afloat (The 747 saved them) but the trust of the passengers and at the end of the day that is what keeps them in the air.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2019
  11. jbruney

    jbruney

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2019
    It's a damn shame that folks lives are worth less than profits. Then again that's pretty much how every major manufacturer does things....They always reserve plausible deniability when suffering a backfire too, but the little guys don't call the shots on matters such as this.
     
  12. grandpaul

    grandpaul VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2008
    I really think planes bigger than 747s usher in the Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility. More new 747s would work just fine, let the competition have their (smaller) slice of the pie and get on with it. But no.........

    Now, combine that with Murphy's Law, as in Boeing's case today, and you get a huge increasing loss scale that will be hard to overcome in the lifetime of the current crop of bean counters there.
     
  13. Eljahara

    Eljahara VIP MEMBER

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    Jul 8, 2018
    One of the family members works in the airline industry - the industry is starting to decommission 747 jets and replace with “newer” models
    They have come to the conclusion that larger aircraft can still fly with a single engine on each wing - so why install more?
     
  14. Bernhard

    Bernhard

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2011
    As long as there is NO cost cutting as with the MAX! the engineers tried to get around having to submit the up graded 737Max ( from the successful 737) by bye-passing registering it as a new plane-which it was and the FAA would have failed it- with a new improved but bigger engine that completely fecked up what was otherwise a good plane. All in order to save on costs from the FAA. IMHO the buck stops firmly with Boeing they knew they had a problem - this has cost two 737 Max plane crashes and 438 lives and still they won't admit it was their fault- see the repeat of the Boeings deadly plane Panorama BBC 2 program tonight at 1.30pm with BSL.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2019
  15. norton bob

    norton bob

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    Got to be something wrong with the pilot training (or selection) if a perfectly airworthy Airbus is flown from high level cruise into the sea just because the speedo is not working. I don't fly anymore unless I'm in the cockpit!!. Perhaps they need an ozzie hat with the dangly corks to tell them which way is up.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2019
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  16. grandpaul

    grandpaul VIP MEMBER

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    Jan 15, 2008
    Won't work if you are performing a high speed / high G-force loop!
     
  17. Bernhard

    Bernhard

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    Apr 20, 2011
    This was one of the points I was trying to make, the 737 was an OLD plane made and sold over the last 50 years but Boeing in their infinite wisdom decided to upgrade this plane by sticking a pair of BIGGER more modern engines on-which it was not designed for, without going through the whole expensive episode of extensive testing as a new model aeroplane, with extra pilot training etc. they saved money, but at what cost?

    The Boeing Company have blood on their hands, and should be up in court on corporate manslaughter and I’m not joking!
     
  18. iwilson

    iwilson VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2015
    My neighbour is a commercial airline pilot. His opinion is the changes made with the Max to meet end user demands have compromised the package to the point computers are needed to fly the aircraft. They should have developed a new aircraft but instead made compromises to stick with the existing air frame, look at the engine nacelles which have had to be modified to fit the air frame i.e. not enough ground clearance. Shareholders over customer safety....
     
  19. Danno

    Danno

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2010
    The folks who died in the 737 Max incidents are victims of the same cost-cutting, profit at any price, produce-more-for-less greed that has infected many industries and corporations. Undercut your Unions, build a huge plant in a Union-hostile state and set about reinventing the wing to show your shareholders how innovative you are when it comes to making money for nothing.

    Commercial trucking has suffered the same consequences, with the money beat out of the actual work, drivers turned into individual contractors and semi-intelligent citizens leaving the industry in favor of cheap immigrant drivers, some of whom can't even speak English. Those people who died on motorcycles in New Hampshire when he drugged-and-drunk young immigrant driver crossed the double yellow are just more victims of the same mentality.
     
  20. grandpaul

    grandpaul VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2008
    "Union-hostile" = RIGHT to Work (Freedom NOT to unionize)

    Otherwise referred to as "the FREE market".

    Is this a great country or what?

    The fact that Boeing chose to move that operation is NOT the cause of the 737s inability to be an airplane without the assistance of computers.
     

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