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Oil light

Discussion in 'Norton Motorcycles (Modern)' started by Voodooo, Jun 3, 2018.

  1. Voodooo

    Voodooo VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2016
    Hey Guys.
    I have a 2016 Dominator Naked with 359 miles on her. I rode my Commando last weekend and since today is another beautiful weekend I though I’d take the naked out. I unplugged the battery tender and she fired right up no problem.
    I pushed her out of the garage and put my helmet on and noticed the oil light was on. At this time, the bikes been running for 45-60 seconds. I shut it off, and checked the oil level. It’s just above the 3/4 mark on the cross hatch on the dipstick. I started the bike back up and the red oil light stayed on. When I rev it up to 2500 rpm with a flick of the wrist the light goes out. I took it down my driveway and above 2500 the light stays off. Below 2500 she stays on. Never had this problem on either my command or Dominator.
    I’m a car mechanic and I’m sure it’s the oil pressure sending unit. But is this a common problem on these bikes? I believe it’s mounted under the rubber cone. Before I pull off the sending unit and screw in my mechanical gauge I wanna make sure that’s the correct sensor.
    Thanks Guys
     
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  2. TonyA

    TonyA VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    Yes that's it . Behind the cylinders and under that long rubber cover. I don't think this is a common problem and you can certainly check the oil pressure either at the sending unit or like David Coote checked mine at the lifter oiling passageway at the bottom of the barrels.
     
  3. Voodooo

    Voodooo VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2016
    Where’s the check point at the bottom of the barrels located?

    My other thought is the oil pump is weak. The light goes off at 2000-2500 RPM. But is on at idle.

    This just started today at startup.
    When I rode it last week when I parked it I had no light on at all.
    Odd that all of a sudden it comes on today at start up.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2018
  4. TonyA

    TonyA VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    There is a drilling that is plugged by a bolt and rubber oring. You will find it on the L/H side of the barrels and at the bottom close to the base gasket joint . This is the drilling that creates the lifter oilway . upload_2018-6-4_10-20-47.png upload_2018-6-4_10-20-47.png

    Please notice number 10 and 11
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
  5. Voodooo

    Voodooo VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2016
    347AE5B6-995D-4D7C-B935-9611DF6F489C.jpeg FB422D23-5EBC-466F-8B1D-AA8937AE77EF.jpeg 9BA573D2-B2C5-4EF8-A361-D5E06BBE2809.jpeg Well here’s what I found today.
    My Dominator Naked is a 2016 just like my Commando. But on my Naked I have a in-line oil filter between the oil tank and oil pump in the oil supply line. My commando does not have this.

    I remove the inline filter screen and it was full of trash. (See pics below)..
    My Dominator has 365 miles on it.

    I cleaned the inline filter, changed the engine oil filter and engine oil.
    I fill the bike with 2 liters of Silkolean Super 4 10w40 and started the bike. The oil light lit for 5-10 seconds then went out. I thought all was good until it came back on 1-1/2 to 2 minutes later. I shut the engine off and let it set 1-2 minutes and checked the oil level and it’s spot on.

    So I loosened the engine oil filter cover and oil started flowing out so I assumed it’s pumping some oil.
    So I swapped oil pressure sending units from my commando to my Dominator and still the oil light stays lit on my Dominator.
    With both oil sending units the oil light stays on at idle and goes off at around 1900+ RPM.

    So now I ruled out the sending unit and inline oil filter and both engine oil and oil filter.
    This sucks because now I am curious if it’s the oil pump, oil pump relief valve or crank oil seal.

    Tomorrow I’ll install my oil pressure testing gauge and see exactly what the pressure is.

    My question is, what’s involved in replacing the crank oil seal?
    The oil pump is obviously easy.

    What boggles my brain is I just rode this bike a week ago and absolutely no issues period. It sat for a week and now this. I’m also worried that when it ran for 2-5 minutes idling if it caused any internal damage. As I stated the light is on at idle but goes off above 1900+ RPM.
    The oil looked clean when I drained it as did the engine oil filter.
     
  6. Raphi

    Raphi

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2015
    May be your Domi has of this trash elsewhere in the oil line than in the filter where you removed it? Good you have this filter and hopefully nothing of the trash got to the engine...
     
  7. Voodooo

    Voodooo VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2016
    That’s what worries me.
    The inline filter screen is very fine and I was hoping that was the problem once I seen how dirty it was. But I also washed the oil filter cartridge in gasoline and filtered the gas into a pile of fine white shop rags and not much was to be found.
    Tomorrow I’m going to check the oil pressure with my mechanical gauge and probably swap oil pumps with my commando.
    I’m getting nervous.
     
  8. TonyA

    TonyA VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    Hi Voodooo , Looks like the inside of your frame (oil tank) has not been completely cleaned out during manufacture ? Also your Domi Naked may still be covered by warranty (2 years unlimited mileage). Norton do make an improved oil pump now with tighter tolerances . I would contact Norton asap with your findings .
     
  9. Voodooo

    Voodooo VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2016
    Taking my bike somewhere is out of the question.
    I have also contacted Simon at Norton via email and talked to Rob about this without to much luck. Once I check the oil pressure today, I’ll also be removing the oil pump.
    What is involved in replacing the crank seal?
    Thank you!
    Scott.
     
  10. TonyA

    TonyA VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    The only seal is on the primary drive side. Primary and gear drive must come off. Then the oil seal is held in with a keeper and 3 small screws. Once this is off you can pry out the seal and press a new one in. But I don't think this will help oil pressure at all. This part is all fed by splash. Once you check your oil pressure compare it to the specs in the manual. There is a 1000 rpm spec with oil hot . Your pump may be out of spec.
     
  11. TonyA

    TonyA VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    I am not implying to take it somewhere. I was hoping that Norton would help you with an oil pump if this is the problem.
     
  12. Voodooo

    Voodooo VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2016
    According to the norton manual I have it states either the oil pump or crank seal.
    I’ll know more once I check oil pressure.
     
  13. TonyA

    TonyA VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    OK the crankshaft center bearing support is another matter. This is the oil manifold that delivers oil to the bottom end (by spray) and sends oil on to the cylinder for lifters and top end. You should check the oil pressure at the l/h side of the cylinder and see what the pressure is at idle. Service manual states more .2 bar set the switch and 14.5 psi at idle. 1.5 bar @1000 rpm with 130 deg C oil temp. I think we were getting 20 psi with mine at idle (cold oil)..
     
  14. Voodooo

    Voodooo VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2016
    Exactly.
    That’s my next step is checking oil psi.
    If oil psi is low / bad I’ll swap my oil pump off my commando and try that.
     
  15. TonyA

    TonyA VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    If debris got to the pressure relief valve this could now be leaking and lowering your oil pressure at idle and at all revs ?
     
  16. Voodooo

    Voodooo VIP MEMBER

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    Aug 10, 2016
    Exactly my thoughts. I’m hoping that’s the only problem. Hopefully the inline filter caught everything.
    I’ll know more tonight. I do know that I’m going to also install that same inline filter to my 2016 commando. That should of been on Norton’s.
     
  17. TonyA

    TonyA VIP MEMBER

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    Jan 16, 2015
    I am glad you are keeping level headed about this. You should get this solved quickly.
     
  18. Voodooo

    Voodooo VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2016
    Lol. I hope so.
    Even though I still have my Commando to ride I already miss my Dominator.
    The thing was, this past Sunday I was going to take my Dominator to a annual British only car and bike show. Well it rained and then this happened

    I’ll keep the forum and you informed. Thanks for your help and support. Much appreciated.

    Scott
     
  19. Voodooo

    Voodooo VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2016
    Well.
    Here’s the newest update.
    The other day I removed the oil pump and noticed the relief valve had some light scoring. I pushed the valve in and out to see if it would stick. And it does not. It moves freely and the spring tension pushes back as it should.
    For piece of mind I swapped oil pumps, changed the oil again and started the bike.

    Oil light still on.

    I swapped oil pressure sending units.
    Oil light still on.

    I checked oil pressure with a oil pressure gauge.
    At idle (1200 RPM) oil pressure is at 2psi.


    At 2800+ RPM it has maybe 6 if I’m lucky.

    This sucks big time. Not even 400 miles on the bike and I now have oil pressure issues.

    I’m not sure what to do now. Any advice?
    What’s involved in replacing the crank / balance shaft seal?

    Picture below is oil pressure at idle.
    It hardly moves at all at 2500+ RPM.

    Manual states 300-400 kpa.
    By the way, I’m checking oil pressure at the oil sending unit port. I removed the sending unit and screwed the gauge adapter into the sending unit hole.

    The manual says to attach the gauge to the lower oil pump banjo bolt (oil pump to oil cooler banjo hose) and to use a double banjo bolt and oil pressure adapter. I don’t have one of those adapters and don’t know where to find one, and I assume the oil pressure is the same even at the sending unit port.
     

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    Last edited: Jun 8, 2018
  20. Voodooo

    Voodooo VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2016
    CF0EA0A6-B3E5-46DB-872B-85B7E4417C85.jpeg Found my low oil pressure problem today after work.
    After studying Richards and Dave’s oil routing schematic I had a hunch the cam cover gasket could be at fault.
    When I tested the oil pressure yesterday, I removed the oil pressure sending unit and attached my gauge to the port.
    Looking at Richard and Dave’s layout it made sense that it could possibly be a faulty gasket. At least in my mind because I really didn’t want to tear my whole engine apart if it was internal on a bike with 300 miles.

    When the oil leaves the oil tank, it goes through a inline filter. My inline filter was full of debris. It does a great job of collecting trash from the tank before it reaches the oil pump.
    Once it leaves the inline filter it then goes to the oil pump, from here it fills the oil filter housing and then sends oil from the outside diameter through the center inside diameter out the oil port to the oil pressure sending unit where I took the reading from.

    I was getting 2 psi at idle. 5-6 psi at higher rpm.
    My suspicion was hopefully a bad cam cover gasket, I was starting from start to finish checking everything in the oil route.
    Sure enough here it is.
    The cam cover gasket has a blow out and was barely sealing on the machined surface.
    At a normal operating oil pressure rate of 45-55 psi or 300-400 kpa it was enough to cut the rest of the way through to lose all oil pressure.

    I want to say thank you to Dave and Richard for their outstanding work for everything Norton.
    Thank you very much Guys!
     
    gchoppin, contours, richard-7 and 2 others like this.
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