Odd tranny issue

acadian · May 19, 2016

gearbox freshly rebuilt, no miles on it yet... she wont go through the gears with the outer on. With the outer cover off, clutch plates out and spinning the back wheel, I can get through the gear (though it's tough) using a screwdriver on the quadrant knuckle. Pawl and spring in the outer cover look good and set up proper. With it all back together, clutch assembled, I can only get second from neutral...

Roadrash · May 19, 2016

First thing to check is the pin on the ratchet plate 04011 is properly inserted into the knuckle pin roller 040078.

acadian · May 19, 2016

Thanks, checked out fine, with the outer cover on the only way I can back into neutral is with a wrench on the selector plate bolt on the front of the tranny

freefly103 · May 19, 2016

Did you assemble it in neutral? Check selectors are in the correct grooves in the cam plate.

Keith1069 · May 19, 2016

Assuming the quadrant is properly indexed to the cam plate and operating the quadrant via the bolt works ok then it has to be the selector mechanism in the cover. If you are happy the selector pawl has just enough movement (barely rotates between the hairspring arms) then make sure it is not pointing backwards (I did this a while back after fixing a clutch nipple) and also check the mainspring is not bust. That will make gear selection occasional as I found out last October

Good luck & let us know.

acadian · May 19, 2016

noticed the cam and quadrant bushes are flush with the outer case (not sitting slightly proud), wondering if, with the bolt and washer tightened down, this could be jamming the rotation of both?

acotrel · May 19, 2016

If you have replaced the bushes, they might be tight. From memory the gearbox cam-plate must be timed correctly, so I often have a look at the manual to see how to get it right.

triumph2 · May 19, 2016

As Alcotrel says, the camplate must be timed. One of the major manuals has it wrong so double check that first.

Keith1069 · May 20, 2016

noticed the cam and quadrant bushes are flush with the outer case (not sitting slightly proud), wondering if, with the bolt and washer tightened down, this could be jamming the rotation of both?

Only if the bushes are too long. The bush location affects axial position of quadrant and selector in gearbox. I have mine almost flush with spot face on inside of shell. I replaced them last year and reamed to size which made a big improvement on gearchanging.

If you have replaced the bushes, they might be tight

They do need reaming from new and shafts will not fit at all.....not even close

As Alcotrel says, the camplate must be timed. One of the major manuals has it wrong so double check that first.

The poster did say he could get the gears via the quadrant so we can assume it is timed OK.
If you can get 2nd can you get back to neutral? If not it suggests something is not returning in the cover selector mech. Either the selector pawl is jamming enough not to position ready for the next gear. Is the gear lever free to move up and down? If it returns ok then that's not it. If it moves too easily then the main spring is broken.
Is the pawl free to move on its pin?

L.A.B. · May 20, 2016

Keith1069 said:
noticed the cam and quadrant bushes are flush with the outer case (not sitting slightly proud), wondering if, with the bolt and washer tightened down, this could be jamming the rotation of both?

Click to expand...

Only if the bushes are too long.

Well, that isn't what Mick Hemmings says in his gearbox rebuild video. According to Mick, the bushes are left proud on the inside of the case to keep them out of the O-ring recesses.

(He also says the chamfered end of the bushes go to the inside of the gearbox)

Deets55 · May 20, 2016

This question may not be entirely on topic but since we are talking gearboxes I figured I would throw it out there. Would it be a bad idea to drill a small hole on the top of the shift fork into the passage where the shift rod goes? My thinking is it would allow some lube to get into that area instead of depending of flow from the ends. By just drilling through the top it would also be easy to identify which fork is which if the box was stripped again.

Keith1069 · May 20, 2016

Well, that isn't what Mick Hemmings says in his gearbox rebuild video. According to Mick, the bushes are left proud on the inside of the case to keep them out of the O-ring recesses.

(He also says the chamfered end of the bushes go to the inside of the gearbox)

Other than ticking me off have you any other useful comments for the poster LAB? Have you or do you just sit there and look to pick people up on everything?
I didn't say it was correct I said it was what I had done FFS. No smileys no nothing. Everyone thinks you are wonderful and yes you have an anorakish knowledge of Commandos but sometimes you are a first class prick LAB and its my last entry on this site. I will lose nothing and nor will you so we're both better off. A useful comment would have been to direct the poster to the Hemmings DVD, I'm sure he's got time to wait for that. Recently you told someone to stop resurrecting old threads and it wasn't really done nicely either, well not from my point of view. We are all wrong , me quite often and I'm sure its in your power but really? Adios.

L.E.N. · May 20, 2016

I would hope you may reconsider the adios Keith, I for one have enjoyed your insights and comments and would hate to lose you from the forum.

L.A.B. · May 20, 2016

Keith1069 said:
Well, that isn't what Mick Hemmings says in his gearbox rebuild video. According to Mick, the bushes are left proud on the inside of the case to keep them out of the O-ring recesses.

(He also says the chamfered end of the bushes go to the inside of the gearbox)

Click to expand...

Other than ticking me off have you any other useful comments for the poster LAB? Have you or do you just sit there and look to pick people up on everything?

The information you gave appeared to mislead the OP. I pointed it out, nothing more. I'm sorry if you consider yourself to have been ticked off!

Keith1069 said:
Everyone thinks you are wonderful and yes you have an anorakish knowledge of Commandos but sometimes you are a first class prick LAB and its my last entry on this site. I will lose nothing and nor will you so we're both better off.

Yes, it's probably for the best then.

Keith1069 said:
A useful comment would have been to direct the poster to the Hemmings DVD, I'm sure he's got time to wait for that.

As far as I'm concerned he got a useful comment from me but not perhaps from you. You could also have suggested he buy the Hemmings video.

Keith1069 said:
Recently you told someone to stop resurrecting old threads and it wasn't really done nicely either, well not from my point of view. We are all wrong , me quite often and I'm sure its in your power but really? Adios.

I know from previous experience as moderator that taking the nicely-nicely approach often fails. That particular thread has now been consigned back to 2007 and the recent posts deleted, but as I remember it, I said something like "Please don't resurrect any more 'old' threads".

Fast Eddie · May 20, 2016

Come on girls, calm down...

Keith, please don't sulk and certainly don't leave.

LAB, please be a little more empathetic in your responses.

But to both and all, lets remember that its very easy to write something, and read it, very differently.

The vast majority of posters on this forum mean well the vast majority of the time...

grandpaul · May 20, 2016

The hairpin is in right-side up, correct?

htown16 · May 20, 2016

I'd bet on an upside down hairpin spring. See Old Brits article towards the end on how to make sure the spring is correct way around and adjust it.
http://www.oldbritts.com/gearbox_a.html

acadian · May 24, 2016

Thanks for the replies, finally had the outer cover off again last night and think I found the problem, the stop plate was contacting the ends of the return spring and limiting the range of motion of the pawl. Ratchet spring seem OK, but to be honest I can't get my head around the whole contact/just no contact bending thing... Anyway, levered the stop plate back a bit to clear the ends of the spring, cover back on, and can now get the gears with the lever (though still very stiff, but I attribute that to all new bushes)

L.A.B. · May 24, 2016

acadian said:
can now get the gears with the lever (though still very stiff, but I attribute that to all new bushes)

As you said before:

noticed the cam and quadrant bushes are flush with the outer case (not sitting slightly proud), wondering if, with the bolt and washer tightened down, this could be jamming the rotation of both?

https://www.oldbritts.com/1973_g7.html

If standard length bushes have been fitted "flush with the [inside of the] outer case" then they may crush the O-rings [25] against the washers [27] which might be the reason for the apparent stiffness? Edit: Alternatively, with the bushes flush, the camplate and quadrant may not be correctly positioned (quadrant rubbing against the case perhaps)?

acadian · May 24, 2016

L.A.B. said:
acadian said:

can now get the gears with the lever (though still very stiff, but I attribute that to all new bushes)

Click to expand...

As you said before:

noticed the cam and quadrant bushes are flush with the outer case (not sitting slightly proud), wondering if, with the bolt and washer tightened down, this could be jamming the rotation of both?

Click to expand...

https://www.oldbritts.com/1973_g7.html

If standard length bushes have been fitted "flush with the [inside of the] outer case" then they may crush the O-rings [25] against the washers [27] which might be the reason for the apparent stiffness? Edit: Alternatively, with the bushes flush, the camplate and quadrant may not be correctly positioned (quadrant rubbing against the case perhaps)?

I thought about the bushes being the issue with stiffness, don't think the cam is rubbing the inside of the case (no sound of it anyway), I think I'll follow the old britts tip of fitting an additional thin washer under the cam/quadrant bolt

Odd tranny issue

acadian

Roadrash

acadian

freefly103

Keith1069

acadian

acotrel

triumph2

Keith1069

L.A.B.

Moderator

Deets55

Keith1069

L.E.N.

L.A.B.

Moderator

Fast Eddie

grandpaul

htown16

acadian

L.A.B.

Moderator

acadian

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