Norton trade mark and the new owners

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Rosey

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Hi all , Here in Sydney,Australia the Norton club has just received an official Email from the Lawyers of the new Indian owners of Norton Motorcycles informing us that within 7 days we must cease and desist using the "Norton" trade mark logo as well advertising for sale any clothing such as hats,T shirts etc for sale (which we don't). "Trade Mark abuse-Notice of Infringement" they call it.
We are just wondering if any other clubs or business around the globe have received what I would assume is a standardised letter. They also included a screen shot of our home page of our website with logo on it. (The Norton logo has just been removed from this by now).

To me it just a lot of BS, why are going after what just a bunch of old blokes on old bikes keeping the Norton name alive while having some fun. Its not like we are making a small fortune out this.
Brett
 
They paid a lot of money for the trademark, in the accounts as 'Goodwill' with a value of £m's, so they have to defend the TM or their auditors/accountants will tell them to discount the Goodwill value which comes straight off the bottom line. You need to approach them and get permission, as the UK NOC has the Norton logo in their Club logo and have been in communication with the new owners then it must be possible.
 
Which logo? The Norton one with the N striking through the "t" or the Donnington "Norlon" one where it doesn't and looks like an l?
 
Dommie Nator said:
Which logo? The Norton one with the N striking through the "t" or the Donnington "Norlon" one where it doesn't and looks like an l?
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Reading through the blurb they sent us, it is the traditional Norton script they are concerned with it seems.
So now I will have to remove the logo off my petrol tank and get the angle grinder out and take it off the timing cover ::))
Brett
 
Rosey said:
Hi all , Here in Sydney,Australia the Norton club has just received an official Email from the Lawyers of the new Indian owners of Norton Motorcycles informing us that within 7 days we must cease and desist using the "Norton" trade mark logo as well advertising for sale any clothing such as hats,T shirts etc for sale (which we don't). "Trade Mark abuse-Notice of Infringement" they call it.
We are just wondering if any other clubs or business around the globe have received what I would assume is a standardised letter. They also included a screen shot of our home page of our website with logo on it. (The Norton logo has just been removed from this by now).

To me it just a lot of BS, why are going after what just a bunch of old blokes on old bikes keeping the Norton name alive while having some fun. Its not like we are making a small fortune out this.
Brett
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I doubt if you are the only ones. Check out EUIPO and US TESS for more info. They are trying to TM every class under the sun, even ''paper and cards products not listed elsewhere'' mouse mats, domain names etc. This bunch really know how to win friends and influence people. Seems that they forgot many of the classic owners will also buy a new Norton. I doubt anyone not knowing Norton would not buy a new one.
Just wish they would pull thier fingers out and produce a bike, like putting the G310 engine in Norton Ranger (Ford have oposed that) and they would have a nice green laner for starters.
 
There is another aptly titled thread on the same subject here...

TVS Cease and Desist

Because the accountants and pen pushers cannot see past the end of their nose, if it had not been for all the people, both good and bad, that kept making the spare parts since the Norton factory shut down, that marquee would have faded into obliteration. 'marquee' Bernhard?? That's a bit...
www.accessnorton.com www.accessnorton.com
 
Can’t you just use a close up picture of a members Norton petrol tank?
Or are they suggesting that you can’t use any pictures with a Norton logo?
Is this why the new NOC t shirt doesn’t have a complete logo?
The Norton lawyers are going to be busy bunnies going after every t shirt maker out there!
 
Oh no. Do I have to sell all my Norton T shirts ? Hell no. I'm taking them into the nursing home with me. Are you allowed to have guns in a nursing home ?
 
SteveC said:
Is this why the new NOC t shirt doesn’t have a complete logo?
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The NOC UK has all manner of Norton embossed clothing.

NOC Shop | Norton Owners Club

www.nortonownersclub.org www.nortonownersclub.org

Maybe AN will get a letter.

Lets not forget Harley Davidson tried to protect/trademark the potato (noise)

Sure glad I got my Norton watch.
 
Last edited:
Rosey said:
Hi all , Here in Sydney,Australia the Norton club has just received an official Email from the Lawyers of the new Indian owners of Norton Motorcycles informing us that within 7 days we must cease and desist using the "Norton" trade mark logo as well advertising for sale any clothing such as hats,T shirts etc for sale (which we don't). "Trade Mark abuse-Notice of Infringement" they call it.
We are just wondering if any other clubs or business around the globe have received what I would assume is a standardised letter. They also included a screen shot of our home page of our website with logo on it. (The Norton logo has just been removed from this by now).

To me it just a lot of BS, why are going after what just a bunch of old blokes on old bikes keeping the Norton name alive while having some fun. Its not like we are making a small fortune out this.
Brett
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Not a lawyer but "official Email" would mean nothing to me. Except that you publicly announced it - they have no proof of delivery and therefore no proof that you were informed. Also, what proof did they provide that they are empowered to speak for the owners? Also, I'm wondering if it is even a registered trademark and if it is still in effect. Different countries have different rules. Here's a simplified discussion of the US rules: https://www.trademarkaccess.com/learning-center/how-long-is-a-trademark-good-for/

Again, not a lawyer - if I'm being silly, so be it!
 
marshg246 said:
they have no proof of delivery and therefore no proof that you were informed
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In the UK this is governed by Court rules for legal documents, as long as you paid first class postage and have proof of posting (free at Post Office counter) then the document is deemed delivered one working day later.
 
Time Warp said:
The NOC UK has all manner of Norton embossed clothing.

NOC Shop | Norton Owners Club

www.nortonownersclub.org www.nortonownersclub.org

Maybe AN will get a letter.

Lets not forget Harley Davidson tried to protect/trademark the potato (noise)

Sure glad I got my Norton watch.
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Yes my green dot speedo watch value shot up after AN sent a cease and desist letter to the poor chap selling these watches.
AN has been in a curfufille with UK NOC for some time now over rights to design drawings and such. So now I'd expect they are feeling heat from new Norton.

In the world of trade marks, it is essential to go after improper use cases as if not defended, you lose legal rights.
 
kommando said:
In the UK this is governed by Court rules for legal documents, as long as you paid first class postage and have proof of posting (free at Post Office counter) then the document is deemed delivered one working day later.
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In the US, the Post Office makes good money on "Registered Mail". Delivered registered mail is legally delivered because id and signature are required and there is a chain of custody at every stop. All other US mail I'm aware of is not proof of delivery. For instance, tracked priority/first class mail gets miss-delivered and courts know that! Email that you respond to might be considered proof of delivery, but email is a best effort system so delivery is certainly not guaranteed! Also, there is no proof that email was not changed in transit so again, not proof of much (IMHO).

If they really have a claim, they will have to fight it in every country. Lawyers are very useful to scare people into doing things - cease and desist or else! What is the else?

Again, IMHO.
 
A club for owners, giving Norton free advertising and exposure. TVS will not have lost income because they sell nothing in that market, a modern judge would laugh at them. What harm financially have the club done, if anything they have done Norton a favour.
These new owners are so out of touch.
 
Madnorton said:
A club for owners, giving Norton free advertising and exposure. TVS will not have lost income because they sell nothing in that market, a modern judge would laugh at them. What harm financially have the club done, if anything they have done Norton a favour.
These new owners are so out of touch.
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Based on a lot of the posts in the modern Norton forum here, I would think it is far from free advertising in a good light.
Maybe TVS will join this website to post they will build a bike that is reliable across the board.
The only exposure I see based on posts is to never buy a new Norton if the last effort (overall) is anything to go by.

Most of the clubs are for Norton's from the 1970's so have no input to contemporary models let alone generate a sale of one.
The reality is make a Norton scripted T shirt in the far east or a mug in old Blighty without consent is all and the same, profiteering off the name and it is rife being being hard to police.

TVS would have to be fairly petty (or more likely the parasite legal folk) to stop classic Norton owners clubs (Worldwide) having a single Norton logo at the top of their main website page.

Openly selling pirate apparel for profit or gain is something else.
 
Rosey said:
Reading through the blurb they sent us, it is the traditional Norton script they are concerned with it seems.
Click to expand...

You could even add the tail out of the T to the right and back under to the left.
Anyone with a clue would still get it.
Norton header on the website, no intrusion on the classic logo TM.


norton.png


I think I will wear my Norton embossed watch today.
 
As said above, you can lose your rights to exclusively own and use a TM if you don't enforce those rights once you become aware of an infringement. If a 3rd party has been using the TM for years without the agreement of whoever owned it over those years and have done so without being challenged, the fact a new owner has turned up and now wants to enforce the TM, doesn't mean they can. The new owner only gets the rights the previous owner can pass on.

On the other hand, if users have been licenced, the new owner probably acquired the previous owner's rights under that Licence. That might entitle them to give notice to terminate.

My money is on the cock-up scenario. Folk have probably been using the TM for decades without being adequately challenged. NOC could probably register the TM under the appropriate class for clubs and societies and the services they offer. If the new 'owners' try to extend their TM registrations to cover this, NOC would need to issue an objection.

My money is also on lawyers and patent agencies being the only ones who make any money out of this squabble.
 
The newly hired legal staff on their first assignment - alienate the legacy customer base to ensure no one over the age of 50 will ever buy one of their bikes?? Just a guess...
 
where do these TVS wankers acutally reside? probably some lowlife $h!t lawyer in a regional office trying to makea name for hisself..or her.....
 
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