Norton ES2 race bike .

Hi , this is a friends son Tyler, racing a es2 he's done some racing in Europe but found, you just need lots of money to compete , the bike belongs to someone else I think it's got magnesium cases and good for around 135 -140 mph.

Shelby-Right said:

Hi , this is a friends son Tyler, racing a es2 he's done some racing in Europe but found, you just need lots of money to compete , the bike belongs to someone else I think it's got magnesium cases and good for around 135 -140 mph.

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The bike was built and developed by Peter Lodge (Auckland, NZ).

Photo of it at this year's Manx. Riden by Mike Brown. 2 third places and one fourth so far. Laps around 111 mph I think.

There is an ES2 race bike which Bob Rosenthal has been riding in Historic races in Victoria. He is the current 500cc historic champion. I think a lot of people get carried away with short stroke, double overhead cam bullshit. A short circuit is not the IOM. Anything can be made to go quicker.
When they tune the ES2, they get the jetting right, then put the bike on the dyno and adjust the ignition timing until they get maximum torque. I think they use an oxygen probe for the jetting. I have seen Bob lap a whole field in three laps of a 5 lap race on a 2 kilometer circuit.

I am open to correction here, but I understand that the ES2 that Bob Rosenthal rides in historic races is a methanol fuelled machine, whereas the ES2 that Mike Browne rode in the I.O.M runs on petrol.

Snotzo said:

I am open to correction here, but I understand that the ES2 that Bob Rosenthal rides in historic races is a methanol fuelled machine, whereas the ES2 that Mike Browne rode in the I.O.M runs on petrol.

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Hi Ron.

Definitely petrol in the Manx yes.

When the IOM bikes are back in NZ the boys continue to run them on petrol so any tuning is relevant for Europe. The NZ and Ozzie based bikes usually run on methanol. (except for clubmans class of course)

The NZ festival is on next weekend at Manfeild. Bill Swallow is here visiting his grandchildren and will ride the Eldee 250. I'm going to Wellington today and will fit the mixture meter and we will test the mixture on Thursday practice. They have been using Gardener carbs but I think Nick is planning to use a GP. I don't care for the things. The float bowls seem to be very fussy. My bike won a lot of races using Concentrics while the guys were messing with old GP carbs in the pits.

But anyway we shall see what happens.

acotrel said:

There is an ES2 race bike which Bob Rosenthal has been riding in Historic races in Victoria. He is the current 500cc historic champion. I think a lot of people get carried away with short stroke, double overhead cam bullshit. A short circuit is not the IOM. Anything can be made to go quicker.
When they tune the ES2, they get the jetting right, then put the bike on the dyno and adjust the ignition timing until they get maximum torque. I think they use an oxygen probe for the jetting. I have seen Bob lap a whole field in three laps of a 5 lap race on a 2 kilometer circuit.

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The ignition timing and carburration on the ES2 that Bob rode was sorted by me at the track. I tune it for optimal throttle response while checking on the piston crown colour. The bike is pretty light (as is the rider), which assisted greatly with performance.

ES234 said:

The ignition timing and carburration on the ES2 that Bob rode was sorted by me at the track. I tune it for optimal throttle response while checking on the piston crown colour. The bike is pretty light (as is the rider), which assisted greatly with performance.

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Your bikes are remarkable.

The two Velo motors were made by a friend in Wellington. The 500 motor is new. They are twin plugged and we were really guessing with ignition timing so set up a few days of testing on a friend's dyno in Christchurch. With the dyno and the Lambda mixture measurements we were able to test over a range of ignition settings. My friend also made various needles for the Gardener carbs so it was a very interesting few days testing.

Still sorting the bugs out for racing. The bikes are purposely built to reflect the original era. Running girder forks and no faring on the 500 for example. The fork geometry and dampening have of course been updated but the look is maintained.

The engines came back to NZ for rebuilding after the Manx while the rolling chassis stayed in Germany. The 350 went through the speed trap at 123 mph, don't remember the 500. They are back to the Manx this year so hopefully they will get a decent finish.

Saw them both at the Manx. Both of them are extremely impressive. The Velo in particular is amazing because it looks like a very old bike and runs girder forks and puny drum brakes.

Nortoniggy said:

Saw them both at the Manx. Both of them are extremely impressive. The Velo in particular is amazing because it looks like a very old bike and runs girder forks and puny drum brakes.

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Thanks. The guys got a lot of compliments. It's a real challenge travelling to the other side of the world and also trying something different. Obviously they are not aiming to win but a 100 mph lap seem feasible.

Many years ago when Manx Nortons won most A grade races in Australia, two brothers had an ES2 motor in a Manx. The bike was quicker around corners than a Manx - they told me it was because the motor was made to pull, more than it was about top end power. Different circuits suit different bikes. Gearing compensates for some difficulties, but it is not a complete answer. Power characteristics are important. With megaphones fitted my Triton 500 was frightening but useless.

He built this too , was up the hill a mile away , back around 1970 .



The frames a bit differant .

Matt Spencer said:

He built this too , was up the hill a mile away , back around 1970 .



The frames a bit differant .

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Who the F### is "he" and why are you contaminating another productive thread with your inane spray of irrelevant photos?
Thankfully no magazine articles (yet)!

johnm said:

Thanks. The guys got a lot of compliments. It's a real challenge travelling to the other side of the world and also trying something different. Obviously they are not aiming to win but a 100 mph lap seem feasible.

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Are you going to the island this year Merv?

cliffa said:

Are you going to the island this year Merv?

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Hi. No I will not be going this year. My knee needs an operation and I struggled last year working on the bikes on the ground. With flights and accommodation it's well over $5000 a trip these days.


The boys will all be there however. I saw the completed 500 motor this afternoon and they are just waiting for a piston for the 350 before boxing the engines up to go to Germany where the rolling chassis have spent the winter.

Whenever I watch video of the IOM, I feel sick. When I was a kid and studying part time while working, I did 5 subjects in one year and failed 3 of them. My mate suggested I should join the elevator company he worked for, and we could transfer to the UK and go road racing. I made a conscious decision to stay in Australia and have a family, I remember what happened when I began racing in Australia. If I had gone to the UK, I would certainly have raced on the IOM - I would not be alive today. One of my friends achieved a 12th in the Senior with a 500cc Triumph in about 1948. He said 'when you start racing, force yourself to go slow'. I thought he was an idiot. He was an Irish man who worked for the Triumph factory. His name was Baldo Meli - he is in the 1948 Motorcycling year book. It was when a lot of guys were being killed. He said he made the first Bonneville head - I thought he was bullshitting. But he might not have been. He used to buy Manx Nortons in Australia in the 1960s and sell them in the UK.

The ES2 was built bythat bloke , you ignorant winker . PETE LODGE . get a brain cell.