norton 905 dynorun

Finally my buddy found the time to put the first run of the engine onto youtube. Search for "Norton remake" and you should find it. No testreadings taken then - we just wanted to know if it stays in one piece .... well - it does so far.
I have changed the cam now to 320 degr and gave it a different setting. We got now 5mm inlet lift and 4,6 exhaust on TDC. I have the same cam ( well - not the same but a cam giving the same timing) in my XS 975 outfit and that for sure is the strongest Yamaha engine I ever built - had to make a dry clutch as not even 10 sinterbronce plates were able to hold the power in the original wet clutch....
Next week I have access again to the dyno - will do some testing and take readings. If the thing doesn´t grenade we should have one quick engine....

Cheers

Hartmut

Pictures! We need pictures!!!

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw2Ox-nnGqU[/video]

Please post a translation of the subtitles in the video or post the original text so we can translate it. Thanks!

Well - the text just gives you some info on what we changed. It says (more or less): new left crankcase half with extra (third) bearing for crank, crankcheeks reworked with all balance weight hanging on outer cheeks, conrods homemade with an I -Profile (not H as said in the vid), pistons homemade, oilpump homemade with 3-times the capacity, oiljets integral part of crankcase for piston cooling. 3 more jets cool the head internally and the cam is pressurefed as well on all four lobes. We run 36mm Dellortos and 38mm exhaust pipes (internal diameter)
If you want to see some parts you can go to my website "www.britishclassicbikes.de" and look for Norton 905.

Wow that is cool. Makes it hard to wait to get mine back together. Still need rods and pistons. I figure it will be right around 900cc when I'm done. What a sound coming from that motor.

Beautiful oil pump (and crank and and ) !!! Sure it does not wet sump :mrgreen:
Philippe

no wetsumping as the two pumps are sealed against each other and the feedpump output works against a valve - all incorporated in the oilpumps body.

Wonderful innovations on Norton theme, can't wait to see and hear more.
Would like to see the oil jets of course and your reasoning on amount to flow and how much extra cooling is expected. My current understanding says might gain some delay in detonation but not much in head temps.

WEAL Norton said:

Finally my buddy found the time to put the first run of the engine onto youtube.

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Verrrrry nice!


Tim

hobot - the oiljets are located at the rear of the cases, middle between cylinders, pointing straight up. I run 0,5mm dellorto jets. I found they will squirt the oil up to over 4mtrs at 5000 revs. Each camlobe has a pressurefed 0,5mm bore as well. This means we are squirting oil out of 9 bores ( 2 cylinder, 4 cam, 3 head) and have set the OPR valve now to 50 psi. When comparing the head temperatures of the 905 to the 750 we had on the dyno before, I found the 905 to be around 20 degr C less - should help a bit. As the piston crowns are only 4mm thick (at valve pockets are only 2mm left) I think the jets help very much as there was absolutely no colouring found inside the pistons so not too much heat - I used to have all sorts of colouring from brown to black inside my Norton pistons in all my other quick engines without jets and was breaking rings as the ring grooves got too wide when pistons were (too) hot and those heavy rings bounced up and down. So the new pistons run 1mm rings and 2,5mm oilring for reduced weight. And I don´t need to coat my piston pins - They are running steel on steel without any sign of wear as there is so much oil there.

WEAL Norton said:

hobot - the oiljets are located at the rear of the cases, middle between cylinders, pointing straight up.

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These two little buggers as on this picture from your homepage, I assume?



If anybody is interested in the details of having 24 (sic!) oil jets per cylinder I recommend getting a copy of the 2009 Honda R&D technical review. Like Toyota they gave out a lot of details after pulling out of F1.


Tim

Yes Tintin - these are the jets. No extra oil in that camshaft on the pic but I changed that on the much fiercer 320 cam.

UN REALLL. That is fantastic, no vibration either, Are you willing to guess the HP ?
Music to my ears... AC. DC.

Alrighty rider Weal, I'm impressed with the jets and pleased significant help detected. This heat thing is really important for my Ms Peel to handle. JIm Schmidt, Ken Canaga helped me figure out where-how to place jets via entering the back side of case just below the cylinder sleeves/bores, 90's fittings aimed slighty forward of vertical. I lost the reference but a Japan study showed in pistons the size of 900 Nortons it took .6 liter/min to get 100' F piston crown reduction. Full race turbo's gas or diesel with pump 3 gal/min per piston. That's a lot of oil so gave up on it at this point.

Best I can come up with is electric oil pump to jets and anther to suck sump back to OIF. Peel can power about 1/3 hp of pump wattage, in addition lights and ignition and heating gear. There may be another way, as alternator is jack shaft off top of belt drive, could extend belt for mechanical pumps.
Only place i think I'd put a cooler is just to the head feed.

Doing some heat math Ms Peel should be able to combust *over* 200 cfm mixture, its rare for others to burn more than 150 cfm worth of btu's. As you see heat strain evidence in your hot rods, I'm pensive as hell to solve the heat dump issue. Peel at this point depends on water inside and maybe outside too.

Peel's crank case is tapped for cam pressure feed, but cam nor bushes prepared for it yet. How did you place the cam lobe jets? Brain picking is yummy.

It looks like you are running points ignition, or are the sparks there something touching that should'nt be?

Bob

Yes - its a points setup - cobbled together from old parts - just to make the thing run. Once the engine survives the 7000 on full power continuously and we can start play around with timing and everything else related to power I will use an electronic ignition without advance/retard unit and manually find the best setup every 500 revs. The data that we gain this way will then be programmed into the ignition module that we will use on the road.

Peel's crank case is tapped for cam pressure feed, but cam nor bushes prepared for it yet. How did you place the cam lobe jets? Brain picking is yummy.[/quote]

The case is drilled for endfeed of the cam, of course cam is drilled beyond the old breather arrangement to reach the RH lobes as well. Breather bores are closed by pressed-in pins. Each lobe is drilled with that 0,5mm hole so the oil squirts out before the lobe lifts the follower. Under the cam I had fitted already a bathtub that is filled with oil, so the lobes dip into that oil on startup before the jets get pressure and take over.

WEAL Norton said:

Yes - its a points setup - cobbled together from old parts - just to make the thing run. Once the engine survives the 7000 on full power continuously and we can start play around with timing and everything else related to power I will use an electronic ignition without advance/retard unit and manually find the best setup every 500 revs. The data that we gain this way will then be programmed into the ignition module that we will use on the road.

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Seems pretty brave to use old ignition parts when simple and cheap EI are around. A bad advance or something could ruin a good run, couldn't it?

Seems pretty brave to use old ignition parts when simple and cheap EI are around. A bad advance or something could ruin a good run, couldn't it?

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As long as the AAU is reaching full advance before 3000 rpm it's fine. Nice thing about mechanical advance is that it doesn't keep creeping up with rpm.