New "resin" Fastback fuel tanks from RGM

APRRSV

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I just noticed these tanks on the RGM web site. RGM says no problem with ethanol. Anyone here know anything about these tanks or the resin that is used?

Ed
 
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I've had a 5 gallon pail of a resin made by ashland chemical for a few years now that was developed by another company dupont? monsanto? I don't remember...
Ashland bought the rights and now makes and sells it. I had seen that blend of Novalac epoxy/vinylester resin for sale on ebay while ago in europe, but they could NOT ship to usa.
I talked directly with the chief chemist at Ashland the claim was 15% or up to 100% ethanol was OK. Temperature was only consideration.
Originally you could only get a 55gal drum @ around $1500. Still have the 5 gal pail. I needed it to make a copy of my Dunstall/Atlas tank.

DERAKANE 470-300 Epoxy Vinyl Ester Resin
 
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I bought a fastback FG tank from Burton Bike Bits (UK) in '12 or thereabouts. They claimed it was made with ethanol resistant resin. No issues at all in the 8 years it's been on the bike.
 
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The date sounds OK, the engineering sheets I have are 2011. One of the applications on the sheet was railcar lineing and gasohol storage.
I did get a few manufacturing tips from the engineer and one was it should be lightly heat cured...
My stated criteria was ethanol PROOF not "resistant"
 
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Two friends of mine had bought fastback tank from BBB 3 years ago , to make sure we put some coating , I make one while my friend make the other , one year later the gel coat make bubbles ........so one friend bought an alloy tank from RGM , the other a steel indian one , they are OK now tho the indian one was bit ion the heavy side and took hours for the painter to get the right finish .......I inherit of one of the bubbled tank for free , ask to the supplier of the resin coat (the chemist specialist) and we suppose that those new tanks were still having mold resin wax inside and thus the his resin cannot apply well , the ethanol gas crepping bettween coat and original resin ..........I had done several fiber tank with that coat previously without trouble !
So fancy to try MEK to dissolve the previous coat , that's I suppose what they supply as stripper , but they don't want to say what it is !!!
 
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Burton Bike Bits is very likely NOT the actual maker of the tank.
So who is actually making them?
A release agent on the mold would have NO effect on the internals of the tank.
What is considered as normal resin/fiberglass manufacturing, adding "wax/paraffin" in the final lay up, would IMO be very inappropriate and unnecessary for a E-10 fuel tank.
Next: The chemical additives, 2 different chemicals, I highly suspect the ratios must be adhered to very closely or the properties will not be there...
How is anyone assured the two halves have been properly heat cured before final epoxy joining?
If the tank cannot be used without lining, then IMO it belongs on the junk pile...
 
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Burton Bike Bits is very likely NOT the actual maker of the tank.
So who is actually making them?
A release agent on the mold would have NO effect on the internals of the tank.
What is considered as normal resin/fiberglass manufacturing, adding "wax/paraffin" in the final lay up, would IMO be very inappropriate and unnecessary for a E-10 fuel tank.
Next: The chemical additives, 2 different chemicals, I highly suspect the ratios must be adhered to very closely or the properties will not be there...
How is anyone assured the two halves have been properly heat cured before final epoxy joining?
If the tank cannot be used without lining, then IMO it belongs on the junk pile...
Depends where they got them from, Curley fibeglass is still going last time I looked.
 
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Depends where they got them from, Curley fibeglass is still going last time I looked.
So who is actually making them?
"Depends where they got them from"
"Curley fibeglass is still going last time I looked."

I didn't ask "who might" or "I think"x y z ..........Give "them" a report when you DO find out.
I know who will be making my tanks...I see him in the mirror every morning...If the tanks don't work I know who to blame...same guy!
 
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"Depends where they got them from"
"Curley fibeglass is still going last time I looked."

I didn't ask "who might" or "I think"x y z ..........Give "them" a report when you DO find out.
I know who will be making my tanks...I see him in the mirror every morning...If the tanks don't work I know who to blame...same guy!
Well WTF - how do you expect me to know, you ain't doing much better yourself.
Curley have been going since the 1960s did you know that? They made and still making fibreglass tanks fairing etc.
P.S. it would cost nothing to ask them if their tanks are modern fuel friendly.
 

Tornado

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Two friends of mine had bought fastback tank from BBB 3 years ago , to make sure we put some coating , I make one while my friend make the other , one year later the gel coat make bubbles ........so one friend bought an alloy tank from RGM , the other a steel indian one , they are OK now tho the indian one was bit ion the heavy side and took hours for the painter to get the right finish .......I inherit of one of the bubbled tank for free , ask to the supplier of the resin coat (the chemist specialist) and we suppose that those new tanks were still having mold resin wax inside and thus the his resin cannot apply well , the ethanol gas crepping bettween coat and original resin ..........I had done several fiber tank with that coat previously without trouble !
So fancy to try MEK to dissolve the previous coat , that's I suppose what they supply as stripper , but they don't want to say what it is !!!
In the fibreglass boating industry, bubbles in the finished laminates typically develop if the resins are not absolutely fully mixed prior to saturating the glass fibre material. Incomplete mixing leads to differences in the curing process, leaving some points of soft curing. The chemical process of curing also releases a small amount of liquid by-product known as amine-blush. Normally that seeps/floats out the the surface. If it gets trapped in soft-cured spots, this will ultimately create bubbles on the surface due to thermal expansion/contraction...just like making a pot hole in the road.
 
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In the fibreglass boating industry, bubbles in the finished laminates typically develop if the resins are not absolutely fully mixed prior to saturating the glass fibre material. Incomplete mixing leads to differences in the curing process, leaving some points of soft curing. The chemical process of curing also releases a small amount of liquid by-product known as amine-blush. Normally that seeps/floats out the the surface. If it gets trapped in soft-cured spots, this will ultimately create bubbles on the surface due to thermal expansion/contraction...just like making a pot hole in the road.
I didn't realise they 'made' potholes :)
 

Tornado

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I believe the Metisse bikes being made as kit bikes currently in the UK come with glassfibre tanks standard (though metal is an option for more $$$). Not sure what they are using for resins.
 
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tanks on the RGM web site. RGM says no problem with ethanol
Not really that amazed that folks can't keep on the topic rails as far as a semi intelligent discussion.
I've know of Curley FG since the early 90's, I've referenced it many times...but I don't care who is making junk.
Should I care who makes the tanks for BBB? or RGM? they should be proud enough of their product to say who is making them, and using what? resin product.
Even so, product manufacture consistancy, if lacking, means a tank holding E-10 without issue is not assured.
 

APRRSV

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I just noticed these tanks on the RGM web site. RGM says no problem with ethanol. Anyone here know anything about these tanks or the resin that is used?

Ed
I guess I will be the test pig. I ordered two tanks today. But test results won't be meaningful for many months.

Ed
 

Ron L

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I've had a 5 gallon pail of a resin made by ashland chemical for a few years now that was developed by another company dupont? monsanto? I don't remember...
Ashland bought the rights and now makes and sells it. I had seen that blend of Novalac epoxy/vinylester resin for sale on ebay while ago in europe, but they could NOT ship to usa.
I talked directly with the chief chemist at Ashland the claim was 15% or up to 100% ethanol was OK. Temperature was only consideration.
Originally you could only get a 55gal drum @ around $1500. Still have the 5 gal pail. I needed it to make a copy of my Dunstall/Atlas tank.

DERAKANE 470-300 Epoxy Vinyl Ester Resin
I don't think Ashland still markets the Derakane resins. They have undergone considerable "reorganizing" in the last few years and streamlined their product line. I have been told that these products were sold to a company in India. My contacts in the business have been limited since I retired.

Did your Ashland contact give you leads on how to catalyze this? A tertiary amine or Cobalt salt for room temperature cure? Did he recommend heat curing?
 
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Hi Ron Yes I have two chemicals. The regular peroxide and the cobalt and the procedure and ratios to mix and the post heat treatment temps and duration. I'd have to dig out the fiberglass folder for my notes. Yes I saw differences on internet content on ashland. Wonder if we can still get it. I sourced it through a national chemical distribution company (ashland distributor) at the Rhode Island branch which mostly services the marine industry. I will have to go back to them as they would likely need to source it from where ever it is now made...
 
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