New "Norton Commando" 961

I have been having a look at the new Norton Commando 961 and I wanted to like it. I really did. The fact is though that I don't. Not so much the bike as the decision to call it a Commando. Call it a Norton if you must...Norton Soldier, Norton Raider, Norton James Bond.....whatever just not Commando. The Norton 961 looks like every other sport bike out there to me and therfore is not my cup of tea. Nothing wrong with sport bikes or any bike that does what it is you want your motorcycle to do. The point is that whatever the 961 is, it is not a Norton Commando.

Its got Dreer evolution like lines so does look similar to hot rodded tipped engine Commando twins, but if it ain't rubber mounted to disappear from pilot sensation, its not a Commando, just a knock off to me too. Wish em well though as keeps Norton name in the news and logo accessories.

Many who have heard the name 'Norton' only associate it with 'Commando', not knowing it was almost the last name in a long line fine (and some not-so-fine) machines. Even the original re-constituted Norton put 'Commander' on their Wankels to try to cash in on the name.

Mr. Garner owns the name, he can do what he wants with it. I personally see no difference between the new Commando and the new Bonneville - I think both are fairly faithful modern interpretations of iconic machines, even if they lack any real cutting-edge performance.


Now Manx is a different matter. That name should only go on a Norton with serious IOM intentions.

I really like the look of the new 961. What worries me is the fact that ever since the one on the forum showed up, he's pretty much been silent. I'd like to see the Norton brand catch on again much like Triumph has done...

Chris

snare1998 said:

I really like the look of the new 961. What worries me is the fact that ever since the one on the forum showed up, he's pretty much been silent. ...

Chris

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He's too busy riding it.... 8)

Commando75 said:

I have been having a look at the new Norton Commando 961 and I wanted to like it. I really did. The fact is though that I don't. Not so much the bike as the decision to call it a Commando. Call it a Norton if you must...Norton Soldier, Norton Raider, Norton James Bond.....whatever just not Commando. The Norton 961 looks like every other sport bike out there to me and therfore is not my cup of tea. Nothing wrong with sport bikes or any bike that does what it is you want your motorcycle to do. The point is that whatever the 961 is, it is not a Norton Commando.

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Consider Ford and "Mustang". The current model is retro to '67-'68. The only difference with Norton is there is no unbroken line of succession. Norton owns the Commando name and is within their whim to use it to their advantage. My impression is Mr. Garner isn't really relying on original Commando owners to be his main market. Taken for what it is, I think the 961 is a viable alternative to a Ducati Monster, Triumph Speed Triple. It's a hooligan bike.

"It's a hooligan bike."

Yeah, but one that the Duc will blow in the weeds without really trying and for less money. I don't get it but as has been noted, it's not marketed to folks like me. If it was an Duc 1198 competitor and could perform with it, THEN they'd have something if they want to be a sportbike.

Commando75 said:

Call it a Norton if you must...Norton Soldier, Norton Raider, Norton James Bond.....whatever just not Commando.

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They could just go back to where Norton Villiers pinched the name and the inspiration for the side panel logo from and call it a 'James Commando' !

So, what would YOU name the 961 if you were in charge, and it was your responsibility for marketing the bike.?

NOT use the name Commando, which was the name of the bike that Norton sold more of (60,000) than under any other name?

Maybe just call it a 961 only because some people don't think it looks enough like a 70's era Commando?

Just call it a Norton 961, like Ducati has an 1198 or whatever. Or they could stick an "SS"" on there if they wanted to.

OTOH, for current marketing, it doesn't matter what they call it because 99% of the buyers (young) they want to attract have never heard of a Norton Commando and could care less about the name. And "Norton Commando" DOES sound cool. It rolls off the tongue almost as well as "Vincent Black Shadow."

It's not really competing against bikes like the Duc 1198. A closer comparison would be with the GT1000 (which Ducati has discontinued for 2011). It seems to me the Ducati GT1000 and the Norton 961 are pretty similar really.

As for the target demographics, that's an interesting question. I'm not sure what particular group they may be targeting. Ducati's Sport Classic line seems to have an older ownership base for the most part (although there are enthusiastic owners in their 20s too). It seems to me the 961 would appeal to older riders also.

I'd buy one if I had the money for such a purchase. Then I'd ride it to our Norton club rides! :mrgreen:

Debby

Mike, interesting you say that 99% of the folks Norton is marketing the bikes to are "young", and as such have never heard the name "Commando".

Gee, I would have thought the exact opposite, that young (17-34) demographic motorcycle buyers would be the LEAST effective marketing outreach for Norton.

They are less money than older buyers, they are less likely to have even heard the name Norton, even less so Commando.

They would be MORE cost conscious because of their lesser income and assets, and therefore less likely to pay some $18-20K for a bike they have no youthful identity with, and know
that they can buy a Japanese bike with much more power for far less money.


I think Norton's demographical buyers are rather well heeled, older, with a past knowledge of Norton history, and a strong passion for wanting to participate in its successful resurrection.

highdesert said:

So, what would YOU name the 961 if you were in charge, and it was your responsibility for marketing the bike.?

NOT use the name Commando, which was the name of the bike that Norton sold more of (60,000) than under any other name?

Maybe just call it a 961 only because some people don't think it looks enough like a 70's era Commando?

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Erm actually, Nortons sold more than 100,000 model WD 16H to the War Department and the model name was used for forty years or so . It had far bigger sales and a much longer production run than the somewhat transient Commando...but no, you're right. Naming it after a 12bhp side valve probably wouldn't attract the right type of customer.

"Gee, I would have thought the exact opposite, that young (17-34) demographic motorcycle buyers would be the LEAST effective marketing outreach for Norton."

Well, you could be absolutely right. I just assumed that they would want the largest possible segment of buyers which for bikes skews toward the younger crowd except for Harleys. I don't see old Britt bikes having anywhere near the appeal (in the US, at least) that Harley's do among the old folks. It just seems to me that if they are marketing to "us" who actually know something about the original Commandos, they are looking at a very small market. And if they are, they missed me completely with the 961!

MexicoMike said:

I don't see old Britt bikes having anywhere near the appeal (in the US, at least) that Harley's do among the old folks.

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Most of the Harley owners I've talked to over the past few years would love to have a classic Brit bike - except for the lack of a starter button. If you look at the typical Ducati Sport Classic, Triumph Bonneville, or Moto Guzzi V7 Classic owner, I think you'll find more than a small amount of gray hair.

I have never had the opportunity to ride a 961. I am sure that not many people have. I have my impressions though. I have heard one run on a video and I have seen some of the internals with what looks like a short stroke engine with a balanced, fly weighted, crank. It reminds me of a modern T100 Triumph which I have ridden and I can tell you that while the modern Triumph is fun, competent and reliable, it is not even close to the feel of a Meridian made Triumph. I think the same will hold true for the Norton should it reach production.

I like the look of the bike. I think they did a good job with the styling. I don't have a problem with it being named Commando but there are other names, in the Norton galaxy, that are equally iconic and in my mind of equal use to launch a new bike offering such as Manx, International, Dominator or Challenger.

Personally I think the whole 961 project was a great try and a well intentioned effort but the realities of the current global bike market and the too long development time have really killed this offering. The new has worn off for me and I hate being teased with the same old 961 images and drive byes yet no bikes are forthcoming. I may be wrong and I hope I am but it seems dead to me. I would like someone to resurrect the Norton brand in the mold of Triumph but I just don't see it happening.

My understanding is that the new Nortons are a flat out success, if measured purely on the demand.

They ARE in production. The demand, at present, far exceeds supply. They can't build them fast enough to supply the waiting orders.

The US importer in California does not even have ANY available to purchase.

I don't know how Mr. Gardner could want a better business model, he has to be very pleased.

"
The US importer in California does not even have ANY available to purchase."

But that's not a good thing. If the product is not available, then the interest will quickly wane unless their goal is ONLY to make a very few "exclusive" bikes for "collectors." If so I can't see how that can make sufficient money to stay solvent. But heck, who knows. All I can say is that I have no interest in the bike and if looking for a new sportbike it would be another Ducati. If it was a "new" Norton Commando in the manner of the "new" Triumph Bonneville, we would be buying one for my wife to ride alongside my old Commando.

I don't see how you can call the 961 a sports bike. Sure it is supposed to handle well (compared to a 40 year old Norton or modern Triumph) but how can you call it a sports bike? I like the classic Nortons and other British bikes but don't have the time or talent to own a 40 year old bike unless I put it in the living room and don't ride it which doesn't work for me. I have a '07 Bonneville and am looking forward to my #92 out of 200 961SE when it arrives. I have had every Jap brand plus Ducs, Harleys and earned a #3 expert plate desert racing KTM's here in Nevada so I am no brand snob. It's good to see Nortons back on line. I am sure it will be a great addition to the short list of modern bikes that maintain a link to the motorcycle heritage of Britain. Am I willing to gamble on the success of the venture actually producing the bikes? Hey, I live in Las Vegas!!!

highdesert said:

My understanding is that the new Nortons are a flat out success, if measured purely on the demand.

They ARE in production. The demand, at present, far exceeds supply. They can't build them fast enough to supply the waiting orders.

The US importer in California does not even have ANY available to purchase.

I don't know how Mr. Gardner could want a better business model, he has to be very pleased.

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Do you know of anyone that has actually taken delivery on one?