New handle bar anti vibe Gig

Hows about adapting a set of these babies for a Commando?
http://www.ktmtwins.com/fasstco-ktm-flexx-bars
Al

Um, biggest reason I've adopted Commando is ABSENCE of vibration at the bars... :idea:

You're a lucky man-since I added the new cylinderhead mount my bars vibrate like a bugger! :shock:

AlColombia said:

You're a lucky man-since I added the new cylinderhead mount my bars vibrate like a bugger! :shock:

Click to expand...

which one? Heim joint type?

As over kill a gift to your Commando as a steering damper but if not happy with the lack of vibes as me and others then go for it and let us know its affects. Pretty penny so might search up rubber mount handle bars and dampers too see the scope of the lower rent options. Two ways to look at this if you spring for it, one showing off a cleaver adaption of a curious expensive doodad and two the loss of face among knowing Commando owners of what it implies about your bike or nerve pathology condition. Btw if ya air up tires good the isolation onset distinctly sooner and deeper, but then road texture felt more.

A proper length radius link will not bind even if out of square as much as an isolastic Cdo can get. Anything that makes one aware of the engine blacksmithing down should be removed post haste as ya know what it does to pleasure, peripheral sensory endings and other things hung off the frame.

Go for it !
The Iso's on a Commando took care of vibes for me. At 3000 rpm my mirrors are silk smooth. Lets here back with a report. :wink:

hobot said:

As over kill a gift to your Commando as a steering damper but if not happy with the lack of vibes as me and others then go for it and let us know its affects. Pretty penny so might search up rubber mount handle bars and dampers too see the scope of the lower rent options. Two ways to look at this if you spring for it, one showing off a cleaver adaption of a curious expensive doodad and two the loss of face among knowing Commando owners of what it implies about your bike or nerve pathology condition. Btw if ya air up tires good the isolation onset distinctly sooner and deeper, but then road texture felt more.

A proper length radius link will not bind even if out of square as much as an isolastic Cdo can get. Anything that makes one aware of the engine blacksmithing down should be removed post haste as ya know what it does to pleasure, peripheral sensory endings and other things hung off the frame.

Click to expand...

Now THAT is some grade-A "Hobotese", I'm generally pretty good at making sense of it but this...

Vince

Unclviny said:

hobot said:

As over kill a gift to your Commando as a steering damper but if not happy with the lack of vibes as me and others then go for it and let us know its affects. Pretty penny so might search up rubber mount handle bars and dampers too see the scope of the lower rent options. Two ways to look at this if you spring for it, one showing off a cleaver adaption of a curious expensive doodad and two the loss of face among knowing Commando owners of what it implies about your bike or nerve pathology condition. Btw if ya air up tires good the isolation onset distinctly sooner and deeper, but then road texture felt more.

A proper length radius link will not bind even if out of square as much as an isolastic Cdo can get. Anything that makes one aware of the engine blacksmithing down should be removed post haste as ya know what it does to pleasure, peripheral sensory endings and other things hung off the frame.

Click to expand...

Now THAT is some grade-A "Hobotese", I'm generally pretty good at making sense of it but this...

Vince

Click to expand...

I must be suitably twisted-I understood every word :wink:

Yeah yeah yeah, just sharing the joys. Bevel the front cushions to 1/4" wide rim, stick in two more big cushions in the rear, put on Patton's rump rod, Tryee's breast control and hobot head holder to feel way less brain static while riding a Commando. There's faster and better handling cycles but there's nothing to match its light footed flying carpet turbo fan smooth thrusting into the future. Vibes should go away about the same time as alternator gets ahead of lights and sparker voltage drain. I've been on vibed out Cdo and its also a ticket and turn risk as going slower makes nose itch like crazy. Factory Tirixie Combat is in same legaue as most of yo'all's, comfy 1000 mile days I don't want to get off but RH peg and mirror transmit some vibes yet not at all on LH, sheeze. Frank that tested isolastics for Norton said the early ones isolated ~1800! Trixie about 2800, Peel about 2200. Longer taller bars and bar end mirrors also help some. The trouble with such a smooth operator is lack how hard the black smiths are working for ya.

AlColombia said:

You're a lucky man-since I added the new cylinderhead mount my bars vibrate like a bugger! :shock:

Click to expand...

Al,
Is there a point at any RPM where the vibration calms down to that glass smooth ride Commandos are noted for? It's usually around 2750-3000RPM. If the vibration actually got worse after you put on the new cylinderhead mount then there's probably something wrong with the mount or the install. Some of them can be very tricky to get set up. Jim's headstedy being the easiest and the PR very difficult to impossible. What brand did you get?

Properly set up, there should be NO vibration anywhere (except on the engine cradle) above 800 rpm. The factory prototypes were like that, and even after the Iso spacer tubes got wobbly (before they were flanged), it cleaned up by about 1200 rpm.

i didn't ride any of the production bikes, other than one of those that were on the Norton stand at the Motorcycle show, but it was my understanding that the set-up of the production bikes was specifically done to keep vibrations in the frame and handlebars to engine speeds below 1000 rpm.

Very informative history lesion test pilot Frank. Glad to get your events out to the world memories while still able too. Norton kept cutting down the cushion thickness in half till isolation began as you report, so either Norton was using half the thickness now sold or the rubber was extra soft compared to now.

No one believes me about Ms Peel, which ain't me that is missing out on unbelievable isolation and security, to point I could not detect Peel under me in any way but by the pressure of seat back and wrist strains with some vital tire patch grip sense getting through but nothing from the engine or the frame wiggle jiggles that you poor un-tamed stock cushion isolastic riders accept as normal and don't realize how wiggle jiggled your are putting up with. This year I've completed my survey of being ridden on and holding on to bar grips of rubber Harley to a few yr old Goldwing and big bagger curisers like Victory or Kawi 1400. Pashaw valve train buzzers and clunker sense of drive train and frame letting un-needed road texture and wind buffet noticed, ugh. The craft that flash me into same zones as Peel did were un-powered soar planes pulling G's in loops and dives and spins or bungee jumps in harness or water ski on mirror smooth rivers slicing sharp turns over 60 mph with similar wrist pull as Peel delievered. Top link worth 10ish% help to me, breast link another 15% smoother secure disappearing act, which leave 75% of my joys unknown to anyone else so far but Bob Patton w/o the front link far as I know. If anything not set in slack at rest adjustment, buzzing and blurrs to painful levels. I could not open iso gaps much over .010" or got sloppy Commando handling fish flop again. If I closed iso gaps below .006" buzz would hit in leans and wind side loads in waves then smooth intervals. Even at 1000 rpm Peel was smoother than my Trixie at 90 and Trixie is good smoothie for 1000 mile days I've tested two day almost back to back. Factory Trixie is not as smooth as a Goldwing or other big baggers famed for and sure couldn't keep up with them handling wise either - so understand why moderns may be others or world bench marks but By Golly Not for me on Peel.

Ok now I'm thinking my Colombian mechanic has been a bit over zealous with the Iso gaps! The head steady is Norvil item and I'm now translating the instrucions into Colombian Spanish(accent and all)
Al

Ala, Frank Damp, I think that the iso rubbers changed somewhere. When I got my 69 S, it was smooth as silk, granted it was 2 years old and as time went on, the isos seemed to get smoother and smoother. But most of that was because the PTFE washers had disintegrated and the clearance was probably around 40 thou or so. New isos provided stiffer handling and associated buzz in the pegs and vibration that made the eyeballs rotate in the sockets below 2000 rpm (heim joint took care of that). On the road it's not bad around 3K or so and no problemo looking in the mirror, but still a bit of buzz and having to relieve the hands from he bars and the feet from the pegs, but then it may be some of the age too, nearing 70.

It's certainly better than the 500 BSA B33 that would put my arms to sleep up to the elbows in about 15 minutes, and that was when I was 20. I always had to get off that bike and hold on to something for about 15 minutes just to get my self back in situ.

I had a 441 café racer-thing for a while, if you did not have to pee before you started it you did 10 minutes later!

Vince

Duh, Norton kept cutting the amount of rubber area in half, not once but twice or maybe even three times before isolation onset like Frank Damp tells us about. If you put more rubber area in the isolators, ie: another 3rd back in the Norvil type head steady then you will get their annoying vibration. This is acceptable to racers on or off track, for a while but its not what a Commando is so famous for. I"ve listened to experts complain how long and hard and repeated they tried to algin and set a 3rd isolastic not to be felt but couldn't change the nature of the extra rubber resistance. I bench grinder waist my factory headsteady Lords mounts for a tad smoother sense and do not suffer any significant handling loss, on an un-tamed un-linked Combat. As a factory Combat it never completely disappears [Goldwing and inline 4 and 6 cruisers are smoother excet for the very high very low amplitude vibration that feels like valve train on the level of wind on hands buffeting], but its only a very blunted softened sense of throb that gets through *** which is mostly Not The Engine itself but more the interfere resonances in a varying ratio to the tire pressures and patch compression hysteria. I know what its like on a compliantly "Tamed" triple linked smoothie which so damps out and isolates *all* influences, like road texture, suspension, engine, wind gusts and fork angle vortex-eddie-pressure waves spilling, I bet none of ya have any idea what I'm talking about. Oh well, all's I can say is ya don't yet know what you are missing out on, but I keep excitedly telling ya what its like, Freaking Ernie Uncanny Flabbergastingly FABulous! so maybe some other crazy or bored builder will try to prove me wrong. I do warn ya its a dangerous path to lose all fear of any risk of crashing except for something big suddenly in your lane. Put this hard data point in your pipes to smoke on the future of Commando excitement in old age or more likely young squids as word gets out - every other cycle in the whole history of em, all require more and more athletic effort to control them into faster and harsher states, not Ms Peel No Sir Ree Bob, some bar holding enough to work R wrist but most effort needed at times is breath control to force brain blood from tunnel vision and even loss of focus on that tiny closing down window. I stopped going faster and faster straight into bluff faces not because i couldn't go into em even faster but when the close up ZOOM in effect was faster than my eye lens could keep up with so rock walls were just big blotches of color !!! hm, am I just making this up to publicly reveal how mentally ill or how psychotically narcissistic as so often accused of... ?


.

When I rebuilt my Mk3 I installed bar weights just outboard of my bar-end mirrors. I carefully set up both isos during the rebuild, three years ago. Although I get an annoying buzz through my boot soles in 2nd gear at 3000 rpm, this is not transmitted to my hands, and at all speeds my mirrors are clear and my hands free of vibration.

The bar weights are a modern extension of the practice of post-war Harley flathead riders, who often poured liquid lead into their bars to reduce vibration. This practice does not damp vibration but rather lowers the resonant frequencies of the bars to less annoying frequencies below those of the engine; all I ever feel in my hands is the road. The bar weights do add two inches or so of length to the bar, but are much less bizarre-looking than the contraption at the beginning of this thread. In any case, they are easy to remove if you find them hard to look at.

Manic Salamander sells nice heavy (17 oz) ones at $125/pair.

http://www.manicsalamander.com/products ... ights.aspx

AlColombia said:

Ok now I'm thinking my Colombian mechanic has been a bit over zealous with the Iso gaps! The head steady is Norvil item and I'm now translating the instrucions into Colombian Spanish(accent and all)
Al

Click to expand...

Al,
That would be the Production Racer style headsteady I was talking about. It's very difficult to set up. The rod end style has the advantage over that type in that they are very easy to get right.

Ancient DIY method to lead fill and more recent way is lead shot/buck shot embeded in sillycon snot. This instant bar damper is whole another principle so would be education to see if it'd work in the type vibes an iso Commando produces. The rubber in the foot pegs definetly mutes the engine and road noise too. Its possible to combine, bar mass, elastometric resisance, and steering damper so get about as good as it gets on wiggle jiggle jelly belly Commandos. Iso's are best experimented too tight then ease open till acceptable. But its about impossible to really dial in or tell on iso's adjusting until both tires are in about new shape and balanced front to back for least steering effort. I thought I'd screwed up on Trixie feeling more vibes than should and planned to diddle gaps open but tore up an old tired rear and wore out the front so put on essenitally brand new tires and Tirxie smoothed out so nice its not even been worth diddling her adjustable iso's for couple years+. Thing is though even if not felt in bars with the dampers it can still get through pegs and seat, ugh.

rpatton said:

AlColombia said:

Ok now I'm thinking my Colombian mechanic has been a bit over zealous with the Iso gaps! The head steady is Norvil item and I'm now translating the instrucions into Colombian Spanish(accent and all)
Al

Click to expand...

Al,
That would be the Production Racer style headsteady I was talking about. It's very difficult to set up. The rod end style has the advantage over that type in that they are very easy to get right.

Click to expand...

Bugger-at least his time is inexpensive and he's enjoying the Norton experience-Mine is one of two Commandos in Colombia!
Al