Narley High HP ports made easier

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Narley ports made easier.

The first release version of Narley ports (Harley XR750 ports adapted to Nortons) required welding the port floor and raising the port to get a larger radius leading up to the valve seat. In reality – no one is going to be welding up the intake port floors because space is tight and the welding is too difficult (the exhaust port floor has easy access and can be easily welded). After a lot of careful study I discovered that you can combine the best aspects of the 28mm Norton port (its steep downdraft) with the generous floor radius of the KR 750 port. Norton 750 heads with the 28mm ports can be converted to the 850 bolt pattern. The drawing below shows both intake ports laid over each other.
Narley High HP ports made easier


Here's the combined intake port with the unused parts of the drawing above erased. You can see that the intake port is greatly improved. You have the steep section of the 28mm Norton port joining up with the optimum cylinder filling radius of the XR750 port as below.
Narley High HP ports made easier



Look how much the floor radius is increased – The intake floor radius is doubled from 12mm to 24mm. The exhaust floor radius in increased from 15mm to 22mm. This is accomplished by re-angling the valves away from each other and re-shaping the port floor leading up to the valve seat. Going to larger valves allows an even greater floor radius by moving the valve further outward toward the squish band. A very important feature of the drawing shown below is the relocation of the valves so they have more clearance between them to avoid valve clash with higher performance cams with more overlap (most high performance Norton cams have less optimal wider lobe centers to avoid valve clash). Stock clearance is approx 3/16” between the valves on the seat. The moved “Narley” ports provide over ¼ between the valves even though the valve heads are larger in diameter (up to 43mmm intake and 36mm exhaust). This means that the roof of the bowl must be re-shaped – first by welding to add filler and then careful porting according to the new specs. Welding in the bowl area is not difficult because there is enough room to get in there with the welding tip. See the “fill” areas in the relocated port images below.
Narley High HP ports made easier
AC


The Norton valve layout found in stock Norton heads was originally designed for the 650ss. It was never redesigned for the larger bores we are using today. The valves and guides are too close together. Re-angling the intake guide and valve so it is more vertical than the usual big valve 26.5 degees and moving the intake valve away from the exhaust gives the space necessary to achieve these ideal high flow ports. The larger the bore - the less valve shrouding. Trimming the bottom of the rocker end and raising the valve tip helps to restore rocker geometry. I haven’t shown all the dimensions in these images (too crowded) but they are available along with other details. If someone steps up and creates such a fire breathing head – we would see higher HP figures than ever. Put in a motor with todays lightweight low stress reciprocating components combined with longer rods (less reversal snap) giving higher RPM capabilities would raise the bar in classic racing and put Norton twins in the front of classic racing again where they belong.
 
Excellent work - many thanks for posting it all. I may well come back to you for more info (and parts!) when I finally get round to doing my hot rod! :)
 
One problem will be the increased angle of the carburetor if using standard Amals or Mikunis etc. It will require a lot of fiddling with float levels with the possibility of running out f fuel at sustained high RPMs.
 
seattle##gs said:
One problem will be the increased angle of the carburetor if using standard Amals or Mikunis etc. It will require a lot of fiddling with float levels with the possibility of running out f fuel at sustained high RPMs.

Doesn't the carb angle remain unchanged, as the standard inlet port entry point of a stock head is employed in this suggested modification?
 
WZ507 said:
seattle##gs said:
One problem will be the increased angle of the carburetor if using standard Amals or Mikunis etc. It will require a lot of fiddling with float levels with the possibility of running out f fuel at sustained high RPMs.

Doesn't the carb angle remain unchanged, as the standard inlet port entry point of a stock head is employed in this suggested modification?

Yes

The port angle and flange at the manifold side remains unchanged - only the width of the port is altered at that end. The area and curve leading up to the valves are where the big changes are being made.
 
jseng1 said:
Narley ports made easier.

Norton 750 heads with the 28mm ports can be converted to the 850 bolt pattern.

Regarding the Norton 750 head with 28 mm ports, here on the forum there has been considerable discussion as to port size of various Commando (CDO) heads, as well as on other sites (NOC, atlantic green.com, etc) were there is conflicting information regarding size of CDO ports (some sources suggest only 30 & 32 mm ports exist). There are certainly some greybeard Nortoneers among us here on the forum that also claim to have never seen the 28 mm port size CDO heads. Since I’ve never had a 750 CDO head in my hands I’m clearly on the outside of this discussion looking in. So my question to the Norton aficionados here is the following. Do the CDO heads with 28 mm ports really exists, and if so, might you know the casting numbers that identify such heads or the specific models/years that they were used?

It has been suggested to me by several different people that the ports in 750 and 850 heads were all the same (either 30 or 32 mm) and the only difference between the 750/850 heads was the bolt pattern. Look forward to being educated on this topic. Thank you.
 
WZ507 said:
jseng1 said:
Narley ports made easier.

Norton 750 heads with the 28mm ports can be converted to the 850 bolt pattern.

Regarding the Norton 750 head with 28 mm ports, here on the forum there has been considerable discussion as to port size of various Commando (CDO) heads, as well as on other sites (NOC, atlantic green.com, etc) were there is conflicting information regarding size of CDO ports (some sources suggest only 30 & 32 mm ports exist). There are certainly some greybeard Nortoneers among us here on the forum that also claim to have never seen the 28 mm port size CDO heads. Since I’ve never had a 750 CDO head in my hands I’m clearly on the outside of this discussion looking in. So my question to the Norton aficionados here is the following. Do the CDO heads with 28 mm ports really exists, and if so, might you know the casting numbers that identify such heads or the specific models/years that they were used?

It has been suggested to me by several different people that the ports in 750 and 850 heads were all the same (either 30 or 32 mm) and the only difference between the 750/850 heads was the bolt pattern. Look forward to being educated on this topic. Thank you.

http://atlanticgreen.com/nhth.htm
 
Ken, I had always though the 'RH1' as described on the link you post was exactly as stated.

'Simply put....The letter from the factory below, clearly states this head, identified as RH1 (though not marked as such), as being for 30mm CARBS and does not refer to the port size.

Below is the early 68-70 commando head casting number 06-0380. .These standard RH1 ports are 28.5mm or 1.12". The number and BIRCO are easily visible on the intake side as positives.'

So if you had 30mm carbs, as per the later Atlas, you had 28.5mm ports.

I had a 1970 Fastback, it had 30mm carbs, and I think the head was as described, of course we are talking some 40 years ago.....and with the measuring equipment most of us had at the time.... :?
 
The early 750 and Atlas 28.5mm ports are the best to begin with and you need to start with those for the "Narley" (HD XR 750) ports. Its the vertical measurement that must stay small. A 28.5mm round port is too restrictive for HP so the ports get wider as shown in the image below. Oval ports are more efficient than round ports when you have to curve the port downward near the valve. An oval port keeps the floor and the roof closer to the same radius by limiting the distance between the two. The oval ports have an interesting shape - especially around the guide. The "Narley port" CD contains a bunch of photos and dimensions - too many to post in this thread.

Narley High HP ports made easier


A head being milled for the wider ports. The latest "easier moved" Narley ports DO NOT require welding and re-locating the manifold bolt holes.
Narley High HP ports made easier


This is the general idea:
Narley High HP ports made easier
 
Hi Jim , is it possible to do it on a 850 RH4 head?.......as they are some many which have cracks, it could be nice to save them , from the bin ..........!
 
marinatlas said:
Hi Jim , is it possible to do it on a 850 RH4 head?.......as they are some many which have cracks, it could be nice to save them , from the bin ..........!

Yes but they would need welding to thicken up the thin wall where it cracks and the port floor would need to be welded up and raised.
 
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