Ms Peel level oil thread

[Hobot]

If our oil changes of 2.5 qt of oil can go 5000 miles like comnoz hi miler does, would it be reasonable to expect a gallon in oil tank to allow 10K mile change intervals? Oil weighs 7.5 lbs per gallon or 1.875 pounds per quart.

 

[texasSlick]

Well, I am sure you know, oil does not wear out, but merely becomes contaminated with products of combustion, and particles of wear. So it does follow that doubling the oil volume halves the contamination concentration. OTOH, you are doubling the interval before Ms Peel gets to taste nice, fresh, clean, oil....but does this matter to Peel? Or is it more to satisfy something in our own heads?

Let us know what you decide.

Slick

 

[olChris]

Little of topic but in the same park..

FRAM oil filters !!! if i recall correctly... In the early 70's a couple of truck drivers i associated with had "FRAM" oil filters which was a longish canister that held 2-3-4-5 filters for the engine oil..(still available i think) Those "filters" were regularly changed, monthly and what surprised me is that they used toilet rolls from local shops and they loved it.... Bragging and showing me the oil dip stick residue they would emphasise how clean it was and it extended their oil changes out to as far as they liked. Remembering that each toilet roll held ~1ltr of oil which was replenished with new...

Years later i learnt about colour density and the fingerprint line trick after being dipped in used oil, and in subsequent years, also paint mixes.

Im sure there are many M/C's and cars out there that are run well in excess of 5k changes. I think even some factory spec allow 10k change..

Some people laugh at me when i say that i change ALL my vehicles' oil and filter at ~5k.... Cheap insurance i reckon...

 

[Bob Z.]

Where will you put the extra volume and plumbing?

Extra tank volume would also take longer to reach a good operating temperature in cold weather.

In a few more months, in winter, the discussion may turn to pre-heating the oil tank with an electrical resistance pad.

 

[Biscuit]

I think a Commando engine is already "oil heavy". If you think about it our engines have 2 pistons, 2 rod bearings, 2 super blend roller bearings, a short cam running in only 2 bushes. It has just 4 lobes and 4 followers, and it's driven by a short chain. Besides the valve train that is about it. For the sake of argument, lets say the average 6 cyl auto engine has an oil capacity of 5 qts. (5.29 liters), that means a Commando engine should be able to get away with only 1.7 qts. (1.6 liters) of oil. Less oil will allow the oil temp to rise some I know but an oil cooler would bring it back down. By the way, I'm not advocating running less oil here, as a matter of fact I run the oil tank level on my bike right at the full line. Juust putting it out there for thought.

 

[Hobot]

Yep I'm definitely thinking to how roll my own toilet paper filter but Bob got the real issues on my mine d/t minimalist plumbing OIF. I'd used online calculators to estimate internal volume at almost 3 qt. but took a gallon of Strominum-Zn-Phos ChemPrime pickle juice to top off. Must have enough oil inside that oil pump can use to fill whole DS frame tube to get back into spinal volume above the oil pump feed. Thoughts of all kinds of light space filling materials kept me stressed last pm but communing with rational minds helped my imagination this am to see 2.5 qt might be plenty to allow full circulation and adequate warm up. Got an education on how even silver brazing causes thermal stress cracks at steel tube bend tack downs, fittings piercing and gussets, that didn't leak until sun heated too hot to handle, to see another leak to JBW, then a couple more a day later and again yesterday. One suprise was from the factory where the side side mount blocks welded on. I had sawed/ground that excess off leaving some on so not to nick frame, which I didn't. Wes helped me find leaks as we joked Ms Peel could donate a qt to someone in need no probliemo. Peel saved about 8 lb eliminating oil tank space eye sore. Kelly George's OIF plumbing into a closed loop system w/o external vent and no one way flapper valve case venting was worth more to me than getting my cap ripped off then tears blasted away across no man's land. I'll find out today if 3 qt is enough to see in sight tube up by stem or will have to open filler to make sure its spurting back to return.

 

[commando6868]

Re-inventing the wheel, over and over and over and over......... :mrgreen:

 

[toppy]

Why go to all the time trouble and great expense of building a thing like Peel or just rebuilding your engine to stock to try an save money on few oil changes.

Oil is cheaper than bearings. Its alot easier to change to.

 

[Hobot]

Anything and everything about Ms Peel is merely to show case the wonders of her simple hybrid 1 robust & 2 compliant helper Watt's like tri-links and if not for the ole Ducat 1098 wake up call upping the straight line sprint rush, Peel's prior Combat with Drouin would of been quite enough for last decades liter bikes. So I am scratching at straws to stand a chance against SR1000's etc so 8 lbs mass lost with oil mass shifted lower and forward makes a lot of difference when harsh direction changes thrown at the ground force one or both tires into the air missing that moving target completely. Most OIF adaptation need extra crap welded on to get enough volume but Peel depressed me when a whole gallon barely topped off, ugh. But d/t the few minds temporary in mode with me it allowed me to see I didn't have to top off for the system to fill enough to flow, whew...

I keep saying ya don't yet know what ya missing out on, because Paved surfaces are too easy boring so severe off road frights is guiding Peel's main deviations from ordinary racer concepts. Still ain't got pressure tight yet so still JBWing fault of factory welding and some I ordered. Strangest thing is only one at a time shows up, ugh.

 

[richrd]

WHAT DID HE SAY?

 

[Hobot]

It means tr-linked like Ms Peel allowed such fast secure hi power turns out ahead of the liter size bikes of prior decade on her rather good 750 Combat power, it took the 1/4 mile times and top end of Ducati 1098 to make me decide to spend a decade more on Peel project not to be embarrassed power/wt wise in the easy opens. I recently saw a post that some Manix carried 4 qt of oil so am relieved Peel has that capacity but won't need that much to flow full cycle. Until one or both tires air borne in harsh direction changes, fluid slosh mass isn't something you think about except for leaks but found out I must on Peel. So either hobot is out of touch with reality or so far ahead on Peel its un-comprehensible. A 10k mile iron butt w/o an oil change has an appeal to me too, done mostly foot forward recliner chair chopper style of course.

 

[commando6868]

It means tr-linked like Ms Peel allowed such fast secure hi power turns out ahead of the liter size bikes of prior decade on her rather good 750 Combat power, it took the 1/4 mile times and top end of Ducati 1098 to make me decide to spend a decade more on Peel project not to be embarrassed power/wt wise in the easy opens. I recently saw a post that some Manix carried 4 qt of oil so am relieved Peel has that capacity but won't need that much to flow full cycle. Until one or both tires air borne in harsh direction changes, fluid slosh mass isn't something you think about except for leaks but found out I must on Peel. So either hobot is out of touch with reality or so far ahead on Peel its un-comprehensible. A 10k mile iron butt w/o an oil change has an appeal to me too, done mostly foot forward recliner chair chopper style of course.

Got it now richrd?

 

[concours]

WHAT DID HE SAY?

Look what the cat dragged in... :lol: :mrgreen:

 

[Hobot]

Well I found out little kittens make the best cat fish bail the biggest ones can't resist.

 

[Matchless]

It has been stated that oil does not wear out. This may or may not be true, I don't know, but what does wear out, or rather deplete, is the additive package which modern multigrades contain. This is apparently every bit as important as the oil which carries it. There are long life oils available for modern cars, 0w/20, 5w/30 etc , which are designed to last for 15,000+ miles.

 

[Hobot]

Yep so more oil = more additive benefit time for an Iron Butt but otherwise so does more freq changing so what's on my mind is mass per lb ft torque reaction + its CoG location x's it tossed inertia ~ a foot long vector one way or the other in the oppostie direction at twice its own velocity -just as Peel jerks front wheel off of surface flying an intened hi side the other way SMack* > hits like a medicine ball while leaping across a yard wide ditch, splATT! Then extra oil is that much more mass to untangle throny vines in fence wire to lug back to road grade. On past Peel I learned where the CoG pivot points were both on vertical and horizontal pivots and rate of rotation - in relation to the front axle/stem double hinge launch or take down angle but will have to creep up on initial crashing till automatic survival reflexes of brain stem take over or is overwhelmed by human limits of keeping blood flow in head enough not to black out. Oh once or twice in a row ain't too bad but one after other and another faster and harsher as ya can over accelerate crashing into them pools blood similar to oil in frame issues. To make math sense of this requires tensor guage field maxtric computation which is way over my little head. I also don't yet know which end the ground effects will lift first in next Peel with OIF w/o side covers or oil tank air pressure zones. So that's some of Peels level of oil issues left to discover on an honest to gosh real isolastic magically disappearing Commando. Tease as you will but still not in same league as pilots spitting in humorous anger at meek mention to tag along - till bored... Most of Peel's air time was raw off road scariest pitching off cliff edges [after freak out hesitations watching light bikes made for it leap first ugh] for some flight time before touch down control returns so how fast it tips on nose or not matters too. I've never gotten so scared and liked it than wild times in logged over Mt terrain. I tease thee not the white and red tabbies work the fastest.