motoGP leg waving

Why is it that motoGP riders (and probably others) take their foot off of the footrest as they are turning in these days?
Back when I was a lad it was a sign that you were about to go up the road on your backside.
cheers
wakeup

ok - clearly misunderstood what the first poster was after.

Ho do you delete a post ?

John

When they first started doing it, it was quoted that it was leg cramps !
Now they appear to be doing it for balance - having a leg out that wide assists in maximum braking and keeping the bike not running wide.

Perhaps the real answer is that it is a fashion thing...

Rohan said:

Perhaps the real answer is that it is a fashion thing...

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Not likely.

Maybe increased wind drag to slow down but I doubt that. Might be to keep someone from taking an inside line while out braking you - just guessing here.

Would like to know.

The main reason it started was a reflex of fear on their skill and their bike capacity this it will not stay up so they are sticking a 'protective leg out, but most are smart enough to go in slow enough they don't fall on leg, which would be snatched right under bike anyway and not really prevent the fall, so now they teach and rationalize this - to save face - by claiming it helps balance the bike to lean and keep front in better traction. I reflexly stick a knee out on my modern and un-tamed Combat to get a bit of extra instant drag on that side which does help initiate the lean but then jerk it right back to centeralize masss and have knee clear the road. I absolutely never stick a leg out like that anymore but when going rather slowly on wet grass, dry stone roller bearing and mud bogs while leaning a bit to try to turn on a sloped or rutted surface. If ya care to find out what might happen if bike actually did slip out from under onto 'protective foot' down - just stamp your foot down on ground an instant - but better not be inline with any of the bike passing over that spot. ...

Flat trackers wear steel plate soles and are on sandy, gritty loose surface and not actaully falling down on foot to save but easing some mass on it for the tripod help.

Rossi started doing it . The things are so uncomfortable , he would stretch his leg .
Les effort under brakeing as it goes forward by itself , and under acceleration goes back to the footrest .
The others saw Rossi was fastest , so they all decided to copy .

A bit like the Norton swing arm fuel pump / ' warming up the shocks ' thing .

Actually Croxfords , Eyes see ! Brain Does , bit probly applys . Theyre wondering if stepping off might be an option .
subconciously , centre of balance , the avvoidance / evasion of High sideing the sucker as the throttles broght in ,
which is where it can start , Traction & digging in , It is a step closer to ' letting go' & following the bike rather than
being Pile Drove by it . Which has a bit of weight phycologically . So really subconcious balance / equalibrium thing .

Not unknown on loose surfaces trying to get the swine to ' apex ' the bend , the legs a counterbalance .
If theres no fence posts or raised verges to knock it of or snap it back . a dislocated leg might be painfull .

Not unknown on loose surfaces trying to get the swine to ' apex ' the bend , the legs a counterbalance . If there's no fence posts or raised verges to knock it of or snap it back . a dislocated leg might be painfull .

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Duh that is how I know its just a silly habit not even as useful and priming the fuel tail bouncing.

This thread brings up another silly practice I actually got fairly good at > Road Polo, ie: kicking stuff in the road like bottles,cans, rocks, small dead animals and limbs. Light wt. Al cans, can just use toes but Anything more massive might jam a toe nail into its bed or bone bruise to fracture. The way to strike a object at speed is to use the extra thick heel bottom. I do this to clear the road mostly for others as very easy to dodge on my cycles, but so do other drivers who can end up aiming at you comming around a bend or over a crest on even in open straight they fear the little rock or animal more than your head light and helmet. A fist sized stone can stone bruise even through boot heels so use some judgement and don't say I didn't warn ya.

When they open their knee, or inside leg, on corner entry, the wind pressure of that sail helps slow the bike and it also helps oversteer or pivot the bike toward the inside of the turn. They can turn at a more upright angle, less lean. They don't do it on slow corners, only when there is enough speed/wind pressure, at the end of long straights especially.

xbacksideslider said:

When they open their knee, or inside leg, on corner entry, the wind pressure of that sail helps slow the bike and it also helps oversteer or pivot the bike toward the inside of the turn. They can turn at a more upright angle, less lean. They don't do it on slow corners, only when there is enough speed/wind pressure, at the end of long straights especially.

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Now that sounds reasonable. Yeah, faster corners only and you don't see it on the slower turns.

Since they need that foot for braking, or gearchanging, how does that work ??

And seem to do it more on left turns ? - when they have done all the downchanging = already going slower ?
How does that work ??

Left shifting and right braking. On lefts, they have slipper clutches so before the leg goes out they just bang it down to whatever gear they want for the exit. The rear wheel is already so unweighted by front wheel braking that rear wheel braking is not an option. Just keeping the rear wheel hooked up and turning at road speed is all they want, as they inevitably heel the bike over and then at that moment of rising centrifugal force, the rear wheel HAS to be hooked up. On rights, they aren't using the rear brake anyway.

Always keeping the bike as upright as possible, no matter the task at hand, is a theme for top level road racers. Doing so maintains maximum contact patch and it maximizes retention of options - the bike is less committed, more traction is held in reserve. You can always lean farther . . . . . until you can't. This is especially so when you are attempting to outbrake and pass on the inside. Keep it upright until the last millisecond, or at least until later than the guy on your outside, but initiate the turn, not by leaning but by turning the bars like a tricycle - upright with weight on the inside and inside leg out - turn with the front wheel - not by leaning . . . . yet. Then, before the high side, pull it down and let the smaller circumference of the inside of the tire take over the cornering function.

It is quite noticeable that the Moto3 and Moto2 guys don't do it.
Nor the Superbike guys.
They stick their knee out in the breeze, like racer school taught them...

Maybe its a MotoGP thing ?
Commentators said it was Rossi that started it - and he'd broken his leg ?
When in Rome, do like the Romans do ?

Just watched the Saturday and Sunday Superbike and Supersport races at Road America. At turn five I saw the leg/foot out a few times on the Superbike races but cannot recall seeing it with the Supersport races.

Think of it as reverse counter steering.

That is, counter steering is to turn the bars to the outside to cause the bike to lean more to the inside.
It gets the front tire rolling on a smaller circumference.

Reverse counter steering is to turn the bars to the inside to cause the bike to stand up more.
This tempts a high side so you must keep your weight low and inside.

So why don't the Moto3 and Moto2 guys use it ? (I'll have to watch the next SBK races more closely )
They are much more tuned to the conservation of momentum, if there was any advantage they would be into it.

Did notice the MotoGP guys only seemed to use it when they are too hot into a corner, maybe its that surplus of power that makes it necessary ?

Rohan said:

So why don't the Moto3 and Moto2 guys use it ? (I'll have to watch the next SBK races more closely )
They are much more tuned to the conservation of momentum, if there was any advantage they would be into it.

Did notice the MotoGP guys only seemed to use it when they are too hot into a corner, maybe its that surplus of power that makes it necessary ?

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Or that MotoGP bikes aren't tweaked to turn into a corner too easily...

Good point about conservation of momentum; we really see that with moto3 or any of the lightweights. Yeah, the more powerful bikes can afford to "square the corner and gas it."

The "leg waving" is really about entries that are too far to the inside, not maximum cornering speed but getting to that spot of real estate first to block pass the guy who has more momentum on the outside while dealing with the fact that your problem on the inside is to get the bike turned in time. It's not so much "leg waving" as it is "sail turning" the use of the wind resistance on your leg to help slow down and to help the bike to square and pivot. Keep in mind that sometimes a rider who isn't passing anyone on the inside will do it too, either because they are "covering" that inside line from a follower who might try to use that line to pass, or because the rider just plain got in too hot.

Yep sir xtrabacksliding plus at the speeds> its useful it helps pull the pilot over that way too, >some times too much, unless jerked back in time<. Essentially flipping inside knee out is the fastest firstest thing a pilot can move-do-powerfully enough to initiate a lean, [excepting instants of tire vapor break free snatch downs] {wrist twist is faster but only jerky pilots jerk it to trip it}. There's also a fear reflex helping to speed leg action, witness a threat there with a rock and the first reaction to stick a foot out when feeling your steed stumble on a slick lean. Flicking a knee out ain't same as sticking it down which is mostly as a feeler and sometimes bike picker upper but really mainly what else can ya do with it while hanging off like a deck ape.

I always hug Ms Peel tight and close as can be, which is insanely satisfying to me as no hint of falling down, hard as I can slam her at the ground just ricochets around a lot different direction. What I would like sticking out on Peel is steerable tail feathers.