Lucas 3 Phase and Podtronics wiring

Just about done with the install on my 70 Commando, however, I now have a spare brown / white wire that previously ran between the rectifier and the ignition switch per the attached diagram.



Can anyone tell me where this wire should run now, as this is not mentioned in the Pod install info?

thanks.

That is the main feed (neg 12 V) that supplies all your circuits. The rectifier end should be connected to the white wire on the Podtronics unit, and the red wire on the Podtronics connected to frame ground (earth).

I inserted a 20 amp fuse into that equivalent wire on my Atlas.

Slick

With the Podtronics you don't need the wire that goes to the zener diode. You do need the one that goes to the ignition switch. I left the wires connected to the zener and the the switch. It works fine.

Greg

gjr said:

With the Podtronics you don't need the wire that goes to the zener diode. You do need the one that goes to the ignition switch. I left the wires connected to the zener and the the switch. It works fine.

Greg

Click to expand...

Greg is correct. I do not have a Zener on my Atlas. I would remove the Zener and associated wire. As Greg says, it becomes superfluous, and might become a trouble point (possible short circuit) if you leave it in. For that matter, the rectifier becomes superfluous also....you might as well take it out....save weight and space.

Slick

freefly103 said:

I now have a spare brown / white wire that previously ran between the rectifier and the ignition switch per the attached diagram.

Can anyone tell me where this wire should run now, as this is not mentioned in the Pod install info?

Click to expand...

Assuming the electrical system is original positive ground, then, according to the Podtronics instructions:

"If your system is positive earth, connect the PODtronics Red wire to ground and the PODtronics Black wire to the batteries negative terminal."

Which, I'm assuming is what you have done and is the reason for your question?


However........if the Pod. black wire is connected to the battery negative terminal as stated in the instructions then it puts the charge output connection on the wrong side of the ammeter-which will then register a constant discharge even when the system is charging normally, so as others have said, the charge negative wire should be connected on the ignition switch side of the ammeter (the brown/white , NW) as drawn on the original diagram.

If there's no longer any working ammeter in the system, the black can be connected to battery negative if required, and the redundant "spare" brown/white can be taped up.

Oooops! There is no white wire on the Podtronics....as usual LAB is the "Go To Guy" for all things wiring on the Commando.

Slick

Yes, the bike is wired positive ground.

When I started it to test my install, I was getting the neg charge indication from the Ammeter and thought I had wired it incorrectly.

I'll make the change suggested and report back.

Thanks for the tips.

L.A.B. Just to confirm, I connect the Pod black wire to the NW wire I pointed to in the diagram above?

freefly103 said:

L.A.B. Just to confirm, I connect the Pod black wire to the NW wire I pointed to in the diagram above?

Click to expand...

Yes. Just make sure the NW Zener spade connector is taped up out of harm's way so it can't ground.

Wiring job complete. Bike running well.

Initially had a problem with fuses blowing - pulled the wiring apart but it turned out to be short of the brown rear brake wire against the frame and nothing to do with my wiring job.

The 3 phase alt seems to be working well with 14.2-14.3 v at the battery terminals above 2,500 rpm.

The ammeter is not moving from 0 when the bike is running at idle or higher, i.e. not showing any charge. Just wondering if that's correct since I wired the Pod black wire to the brown/white wire as recommended by L.A.B. above?

freefly103 said:

Wiring job complete. Bike running well.


The ammeter is not moving from 0 when the bike is running at idle or higher, i.e. not showing any charge. Just wondering if that's correct since I wired the Pod black wire to the brown/white wire as recommended by L.A.B. above?

Click to expand...

Check the fuse at the battery. If fuse is good, and battery fully charged, it is normal to have no significant movement of ammeter needle. Run down the battery by turning on lights (engine off) for 5 minutes, then start and look for ammeter movement.

Slick

Bike ran well, then died on two separate occassions leaving me on the side of the road. I got to know the tow guy pretty well. Both times, the fuse was intact. The bike just cut out and rolled to a stop.

Pulled my wiring job apart, suspecting a short or something similar. Nothing obvious. All connections were good. No shorted wires.

Read about ammeters on here. Taking the ammeter out of the circuit confirmed that it was indeed the culprit. Apparently, it can't handle the Pod's 240w, overheated and stopped the bike in it's tracks.

Ordered a Wassell replacement from RGM. Anyone used these? Any good i.e. more reliable than the Lucas? Might just leave the ammeter out of the circuit. Has anyone put 6-8 inches of wire between the connections for a home made shunt to improve the reliability?

Voltmeter is an option. Anyone know where I can find one to fit the 70 headlamp?

i much prefer a voltmeter. it tells you that you have 14.X or greater volts when on the go, and is basically just reading of the battery condition, ammeter is inserted into the main power line and as you found out can stop you cold.

what diameter is the hole left when you remove the ammeter? any voltmeter of similar dia should be good to go, 52mm is a common size, these days there are even digital units

freefly103 said:

Ordered a Wassell replacement from RGM. Anyone used these? Any good i.e. more reliable than the Lucas?

Click to expand...

I've tried using a Wassell ammeter for my Norton and these are the problems I have encountered. Initially the case started cracking where the chrome bezel crimps on. Then shortly thereafter the coil wire broke free from the top of the flat head terminal screw due to the fact that it was a cold soldered joint and really only solder flux was holding the thing together. So what I did was to make a new ammeter case from aluminum alloy and I replaced the terminal studs with larger number 8 brass round head screws. I drilled into the head of the screws so that the wire could feed into the head of the screw and made sure I had a good solder joint on both terminal screws.

After about 1000 miles with my overhauled ammeter the gauge started working erratically. Under close examination I determined that the plastic needle had warped and was dragging on the glass. I took the gauge apart again and tried to reshape the pointer by using heat. I got the pointer too hot and the needle shriveled up. Grrrr!

I have looked at the new Lucas replacement ammeter gauges and I was disappointed to see that they use the exact same meter movement as the Wassell gauge. So I am inclined to believe that the EMGO ammeter is probably the best of the bunch. It appears to be a copy of the old original Lucas gauge.

Here is a picture of the Wassell meter movement. You can see where the heavy gauge wire is soldered to the top of the terminal screw which is where they are likely to fail:



I believe that the original Lucas ammeters are made better than the later Lucas or Wassell units. The terminals that attach to the meter's coil appear to be crimped and welded. I think the biggest problem with the old Lucas units is that the pointer spindle wears out the brass bearings so that the needle starts to get real erratic and eventually fails. It's too bad that they didn't use jeweled bearings in this case.

Here is a picture of the meter movement on an old original Lucas ammeter. If you look closely you can see where the spindle had actually worn a hole through the top bearing. This meter is well worn out but the coil is still intact so it would not stop the motorcycle from working.



I have a milliammeter that had been mounted in my BSA 650 Thunderbolt and decided to use that in my Norton. I put this gauge in my BSA back in the 1970's. This gauge was made by Ideal Precision and its a military spec'd. 'ruggedized gauge' which is designed for harsh environments. It is a one inch diameter gauge. On the BSA I just simply cut the back of the Lucas gauge off and silicone sealed the Ideal Precision gauge into the back of the original Lucas housing. There is a length of 16 gauge wire that is used as a shunt for this gauge.

When I installed it on my Norton I decided to make it a little better looking. I machined out an aluminum housing for the gauge. Then I removed the original window cover and glass from the Ideal Precision gauge and fitted it into the new housing. I used the original Lucas faceplate along with the glass and bezel from the Wassell unit. I made the gauge mounting bracket double as an attach point for the terminal studs. Here are a couple of pictures of the completed unit.

This gauge works beautifully and it puts all of the other gauges to shame. It is not erratic and it tells you exactly what's going on. I have about 4000 miles on it with my Norton and years of use on my BSA with absolutely zero problems.

Front


Back of the unit


Here is the finished ammeter installed


Right now I am looking for another ruggedized milliammeter for my BSA. Instead of 100 mA gauge that I currently have I would prefer a 10mA gauge so that I can use a shorter shunt wire.

Your new charging system did not damage your old ammeter, the gauge just simply failed. Either the coil wire or one of the terminals broke somewhere or possibly corrosion got between the terminal and terminal stud. You mentioned also that you were blowing fuses when you had a short circuit and I doubt that this would even damage your ammeter. It would just momentarily deflect the needle full swing.

Last and least if anyone wants an aluminum housing for a Wassell gauge, just let me know and I will send it to you.

freefly103 said:

Bike ran well, then died on two separate occassions leaving me on the side of the road. I got to know the tow guy pretty well. Both times, the fuse was intact. The bike just cut out and rolled to a stop.

Pulled my wiring job apart, suspecting a short or something similar. Nothing obvious. All connections were good. No shorted wires.

Read about ammeters on here. Taking the ammeter out of the circuit confirmed that it was indeed the culprit. Apparently, it can't handle the Pod's 240w, overheated and stopped the bike in it's tracks.

Ordered a Wassell replacement from RGM. Anyone used these? Any good i.e. more reliable than the Lucas? Might just leave the ammeter out of the circuit. Has anyone put 6-8 inches of wire between the connections for a home made shunt to improve the reliability?

Voltmeter is an option. Anyone know where I can find one to fit the 70 headlamp?

Click to expand...

Why not just leave the non functioning ammeter in place to fill the hole and permanently bypass it so that it can't cause you anymore trouble. Drill a small hole in the headlight and fit one of these little guys. Just two wires to connect, in parallel to system so it doesn't matter if it packs it in (it won't though) It even has auto night dimming as a built in feature.
I bought six of them and the total cost was under a hundred GBP, IIRC. It is reassuring to look down once in awhile when underwsy and see the pleasant green light (13.2 volts+). With engine off the light shows a stead amber which means voltage is between 12.45 and 13.2. This is normal good to go resting voltage. Lower voltages show red, then red flashing slow, then red flashing fast as voltage goes lower, so you really have a clear picture of voltage present.

When my lithium Iron battery self destructed 1500 miles from home last year, the flashing battery monitor light caught my attention right away, whereas a negative , or perhaps with dying battery, max positive ammeter reading would likely have gone unnoticed until too late.
Glen

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