LED lighting kit?

click · Apr 10, 2009

Hi,

Re: 1975 920 ES

I'm being lazy . . . . again!

Does anybody know of an LED upgrade kit for the indicators & rear brake light for a Commando?

I know you can get most of the 'bits' from a number of sources but for the EC's (electrically challenged

) amongst us (i.e. me!) is anybody doing a ready to install kit?

I've done a fair amount of Goggling & have not found anything but sometimes there might be a small operation tucked away somewhere on the planet doing something like this?

The other option is for some REALLY kind person to put together an idiots guide to changing to LED's. Listing all the components you need & LOT's of pictures

Thanks in advance

Kevin

L.A.B. · Apr 10, 2009

click said:
Does anybody know of an LED upgrade kit for the indicators & rear brake light for a Commando?

I know you can get most of the 'bits' from a number of sources but for the EC's (electrically challenged ) amongst us (i.e. me!) is anybody doing a ready to install kit?

The only "kits" I've seen are for modern bikes, so have modern style housings that will probably look completely out of placew on your Commando?

click said:
The other option is for some REALLY kind person to put together an idiots guide to changing to LED's. Listing all the components you need & LOT's of pictures

Changing to LEDs should be as simple as" "remove old bulb, replace with new LED bulb, remove old flasher unit, replace with new LED flasher unit"?

Goffy sells direct replacement LED bulbs, resistors and flasher units: http://www.norbsa02.freeuk.com/goffyleds.htm If you fit the resistors then you can probably keep the original flasher unit?
Just be aware that the majority of LED bulbs only work with a negative earth electrical system (unless you intend to change your bike's electrical system over to negative earth?).

LED flasher bulb replacement units are also available from "Bulbs That Last Forever": http://www.freewebs.com/rtetetet1/index2.html

click · Apr 10, 2009

Hi L.A.B.,

I've sent an email to NORBSA asking him the same question. I'm sure he has all the 'bits' I need.

I've only recently got my Norton & I'm presuming it has a positive earth system, might be a very basic question but how do I tell if it's a positive earth system?

Many thanks for your reply.

Kevin

L.A.B. · Apr 10, 2009

click said:
I've only recently got my Norton & I'm presuming it has a positive earth system, might be a very basic question but how do I tell if it's a positive earth system?

The positive (+) terminal of the battery will be connected to the engine case (earth/ground) preferably by the heavy gauge starter lead only.
If there's an additional Red wire from the harness connected to the battery pos. terminal then it's better to disconnect it, if you have a working starter motor, but make sure there's a connection between the harness Red wire and the engine casing (normally by a terminal at one of the headsteady screws) ?

Battery negative (-) connects to the rectifier and ignition switch by a Brown/Blue wire (with fuse?), and also a heavy starter lead goes to the starter solenoid.

click · Apr 10, 2009

Hi L.A.B.,

Many thanks again for your advice/information.

My plan is to start upgrading various electrical components as funds become available (I'll have to start printing money with the list I've compiled so far

)

All the best

Kevin

CanukNortonNut · Apr 10, 2009

here is what I run on my Commando.
http://www.bulbsthatlast4ever.com/led.html
http://www.bulbsthatlast4ever.com/products/679-si.html
CNN

click · Apr 10, 2009

CanukNortonNut said:
here is what I run on my Commando.
http://www.bulbsthatlast4ever.com/led.html
http://www.bulbsthatlast4ever.com/products/679-si.html
CNN

Hi CanukNortonNut,

Thanks for the link. I see they did an indicator/winker LED conversion kit but it is discontinued.

NORBSA also does the same LED tail unit. He replied to me but does not supply positive earth LED bulbs.

So my next question is does anybody know of a supplier who can supply positive earth LED indicator/winker bulbs to fit the original Lucas units?

Many Thanks

Kevin

Ron L · Apr 10, 2009

When converting to LED signals you will need to replace the flasher with an electronic one or use a resistor to make the mechanical one work. I don't know if all electronic flashers can be used with positive ground either. Of course most LED kits won't work with positive ground.

Another issue will be the indicator light in the headlight. There recently was a discussion of this on the INOA board. A rider converted to negative ground and installed LED turn signals and they operated all four signals with either switch position. If you look at the Norton wiring diagram, the indicator lamp is wired across the load connections of the signal lamps. This essentially uses the bulb of the non-energized signal lamp for a ground. The low current draw of the LEDs causes them to illuminate. The fix is either to forget the indicator lamp, or ground one side of the indicator lamp and connect both feeds from the signal lamps to the remaining wire using a pair of diodes.

Another suggested option was to use a 3-prong flasher that has a pilot connection (not a ground). I don't know how readily available those are. I see a lot of three prong flashers that are LOAD, BATT, GRND. These will not work.

In the newest reincarnation of my cafe racer I am using some very small flush mount incandescent signals on the fairing and tiny rear signals that mount on the license plate bolt at the rear. I am concerned that they may not draw enough current for a thermal flasher. If not, I will probably need to re-wire the indicator and add the diodes as well.

click · Apr 10, 2009

Ron L said:
When converting to LED signals you will need to replace the flasher with an electronic one or use a resistor to make the mechanical one work. I don't know if all electronic flashers can be used with positive ground either. Of course most LED kits won't work with positive ground.

Another issue will be the indicator light in the headlight. There recently was a discussion of this on the INOA board. A rider converted to negative ground and installed LED turn signals and they operated all four signals with either switch position. If you look at the Norton wiring diagram, the indicator lamp is wired across the load connections of the signal lamps. This essentially uses the bulb of the non-energized signal lamp for a ground. The low current draw of the LEDs causes them to illuminate. The fix is either to forget the indicator lamp, or ground one side of the indicator lamp and connect both feeds from the signal lamps to the remaining wire using a pair of diodes.

Another suggested option was to use a 3-prong flasher that has a pilot connection (not a ground). I don't know how readily available those are. I see a lot of three prong flashers that are LOAD, BATT, GRND. These will not work.

In the newest reincarnation of my cafe racer I am using some very small flush mount incandescent signals on the fairing and tiny rear signals that mount on the license plate bolt at the rear. I am concerned that they may not draw enough current for a thermal flasher. If not, I will probably need to re-wire the indicator and add the diodes as well.

Hi Ron L.,

I know NORBSA does a positive ground (PG) flasher unit for LED's.

I've sent off a bunch of emails to LED bulb suppliers asking them can they supply LED PG indicator bulbs for the Lucas units.

I did find one supplier who is supplying a PG LED rear brake bulb, I'm unsure if this will work like a traditional twin element bulb but I've asked this question & I'm awaiting a reply.

IF I can track down LED PG indicator bulbs & a PG flasher unit my thinking is it should be a straight swop with non of the problem above or am I missing something?

Many Thanks

Kevin

L.A.B. · Apr 10, 2009

Ron L said:
When converting to LED signals you will need to replace the flasher with an electronic one or use a resistor to make the mechanical one work. I don't know if all electronic flashers can be used with positive ground either. Of course most LED kits won't work with positive ground.

All my British bikes have one of these flasher units installed: http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/165

Not only do they work with either polarity, they can be wired as either a two or three terminal flasher relay and work at a consistent flash rate: http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/f ... iagram.jpg

Ron L said:
Another issue will be the indicator light in the headlight.

A small detail point, but as the bike in question is an 850 MkIII then the indicator warning bulb would normally be fitted in the MkIII console, and not the headlamp shell.

click · Apr 10, 2009

Hi L.A.B.,

Many thanks for the link to the indicator relay, now all I need to find is positive ground LED indicator bulbs!

Somebody on the planet must be doing them? I'll start looking around the classic car forums somebody might have come across them.

Once again many thanks to everybody for their comments/help.

Kevin

L.A.B. · Apr 10, 2009

In theory it should be possible to isolate the indicator bulb holders from the insides of their housings (as the metal coated housings are the return conductors to the stems), and then reverse the polarity across the holders, as it ought to be a simple case of reversing current direction at the bulb in order to use a negative earth LED bulb, I would have thought?

Can anybody think of a reason why that wouldn't work?

Corona850 · Apr 10, 2009

click said:
Does anybody know of an LED upgrade kit for the indicators & rear brake light for a Commando?

I haven't installed one yet, so I can't comment on how good it is, but a rear light kit is available from British Cycle. Hopefully, this link will take you to it:
http://www.britcycle.com/Products/led/391_53454_LED.htm

And these guys list a positive earth LED bulb replacement, which I think might work for indicators. It's something I've been looking into and is on my future to-do list.
http://www.aceparts.com/all-led-bulbs/l ... earth-.htm

Ron L · Apr 10, 2009

A small detail point, but as the bike in question is an 850 MkIII then the indicator warning bulb would normally be fitted in the MkIII console, and not the headlamp shell.

Point well taken, but regardless of location the problem and the solution is the same.

Les, the electronic flasher you linked to you mentioned could be used in a two or three prong circuit. Is the third prong a ground connection or a pilot connection?

Corona850,
The taillight from British Cycle Supply is from BulbsThatLastForever that CanukNortonNut linked to.

Unclviny · Aug 5, 2009

Talk to "Digisteve" at Britgaskets, he knows all!

Unclviny

maylar · Aug 7, 2009

Re:

Ron L said:
Another issue will be the indicator light in the headlight. There recently was a discussion of this on the INOA board. A rider converted to negative ground and installed LED turn signals and they operated all four signals with either switch position. If you look at the Norton wiring diagram, the indicator lamp is wired across the load connections of the signal lamps. This essentially uses the bulb of the non-energized signal lamp for a ground. The low current draw of the LEDs causes them to illuminate. The fix is either to forget the indicator lamp, or ground one side of the indicator lamp and connect both feeds from the signal lamps to the remaining wire using a pair of diodes.

The stock wiring for the indicator is rather clever... using the "off" side for the indicator's return path. I did the 2 diode mod and it works fine.

Since I have a Sparx regulator and no Zener it was a simple task to convert to negative earth. I was installing a new ignition unit anyway, and that's the only thing that cares. So far I have LED's only in the front. I got them from this guy:

http://www.superbrightleds.com/led_prods.htm

...along with the flasher unit. The 19-LED amber bulbs are visible but definitely not as bright as an 1156 bulb. Gonna leave the incandescants in the rear for now. I also bought a 25-LED red 1157 but haven't tried it in the rear yet.

LED lighting kit?

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