Insurance in the UK

First off, I know that one answer to this post is "contact an insurance company." Yeah, sounds good but that hasn't worked out well so far. Frankly, either I don't understand the UK regs or they don't...

We live in the UK (Bath) for 5 months of the year and are considering purchasing bikes in the UK. Purchasing is no issue at all but insurance is. Several companies have said that they can't insure us because we are foreigners, not permanent residents. BUT, we are, per UK regulation RDR3, section 1.24 and 1.25, "statutory residents" since we own property here and spend "sufficient time" in the UK, as required by the regs. But I can't figure out if a statutory and a permanent resident are considered the same thing as far as the insurance would be concerned.

Regardless, per the UK regs, you can operate a small vehicle or motorcycle in the UK on a foreign license for 12 months from you last entry into the UK. This would mean that if you enter the UK every year in May and stay for 5 months (as we do) there is no need to get a UK driver's license.

But it seems to be the lack of the UK driver's license that causes the problem for the insurance companies - at least the ones we have contacted. I know there are insurance companies that will insure the bikes but they are specifically aimed at short term tourists and the rates are very high.

I would appreciate any info/suggestions that might be useful - specific insurance companies, etc. If we cannot do better than the typical tourist company insurance rates, I think we will have to forget about buying bikes here.

Mike
Would hiring a bike, where the insurance comes with the package, be more cost effective than buying both the bike and insurance. The advantage of hiring is that if anything goes wrong you get a replacement or fix at the hirers expense?
You may have already investigated this so apologies if that is the case.
John

Edit: found this on the Carole Nash Website.
WHEN AM I CLASSED AS A UK RESIDENT?
You’re automatically a UK resident if either:

• You’ve spent 183 days or more of the tax year in the UK
• Your only home was in the UK – you must have owned, rented or lived in it for at least 91 days and you must have spent at least 30 of those days in this tax year

You’re automatically non-resident if either:

• You’ve spent fewer than 16 days in the UK (or 46 days if you haven’t been classed as UK resident for the 3 previous tax years)
• You work abroad full-time (averaging at least 35 hours a week) and spent fewer than 91 days in the UK. of which no more than 30 were spent working

Hi Mike,
Would certainly recommend contacting Carole Nash - https://www.carolenash.com

I insure my bikes and classic cars through them and they've always been very helpful.

Good luck,
Gary

Sounds like the old Catch-22. You are in a gray area not a citizen not a full time resident but still a legal resident. You clearly dont need to get a UK license so no doubt somebody in the insurance biz has run into this previously.
Im a legal full time non citizen resident and the first year of bike insurance cost me dearly despite having a US license for 50 years and that was
after I got my UK license.
Call as many insurance outfits as you can or better yet appear in person it may take a bit of looking.

there are a number of brokers who advertise in classic comics and with the NOC.. Do you have this issue with cars? Carol Nash is a good steer... But am assuming you are US national cant you get insurance that will cover you in Europe as well as the US. You might try writing to your MP and ask therm for advice...on the face of it this seems like crass Anti Americanism

Thanks guys! Hiring is prohibitive, price wise. About the best deal I can find doing that is several hundred pounds/week for small bike - 350cc or thereabouts.

Long-term it seems to us that purchasing is a better way to go IF the insurance price doesn't run us out of the market. As you both mentioned, this seems to be one of those areas where email and/or on-line forms/etc just don't work. I'll make some personal calls to Nash and others and see what happens...

To show you how confusing it is, one insurance company told me I had to be a UK resident AND have a UK drivers license in order to BUY a motorcycle in the UK. Two dealers I called and asked about that replied (in more professional words) "Hand us money, we hand you a motorcycle. Insurance, or lack of it, and a motorcycle license, or lack of it, is your business."

ttps://www.keithmichaels.co.uk/specialist...insurance/...insurance/expat-car-insurance-fa...

You might try the US embassy.. There are thousands of US citizens in the UK who presumably need insurance .. Possibly there is a specialist broker to whom the embassy refers people.

Give "allstyles" a try
I used to use Carole Nash but they didn't seem to like my modified bikes and they just became far too dear

Carole Nash has been bought by private equity investors and they are now milking the good reputation Carole achieved, I stopped using them when they were adding 30% to the annual renewal quote which was dropped if you rang up. I do not want or need to ring my insurer every year so I am now with Peter James who are run and owned by Peter James, so worth giving them a ring. Not to be confused with James Footman, also owned by private equity and Peter James's original company which he sold, then he got bored. It gets confusing !!!!

Yes, as Kommando says, Carole Nash is a pale shadow of the company it used to be. I gave up on them after many years a couple of years ago. I'm now with Peter James where you deal with human beings who know something about their subject.

https://www.peterjamesinsurance.co.uk

There is also RH Insurance. I have a friend who owns several classic bikes and whose son lives in Sweden. He needed his son to be a named rider on his policy so he could ride something when he visited the UK. RH were the only ones who were happy to sort this out for him.

https://www.rhspecialistinsurance.co.uk

Ian

Maybe just get a UK driving licence, an unnecessary pain for sure. Sometimes you just have to work the system.

kommando said:

Carole Nash has been bought by private equity investors and they are now milking the good reputation Carole achieved, I stopped using them when they were adding 30% to the annual renewal quote which was dropped if you rang up. I do not want or need to ring my insurer every year so I am now with Peter James who are run and owned by Peter James, so worth giving them a ring. Not to be confused with James Footman, also owned by private equity and Peter James's original company which he sold, then he got bored. It gets confusing !!!!

Click to expand...

I wasn't aware of this... I'll keep a close on this when my renewal comes in next month

Well - I talked to reps from Nash and Bennets and both said we have to be in the UK for 6 months. We could stay 6 rather than 5 but we still have to have a UK driver's license. So, as noted, we may have to get UK licenses - don't know anything about how that would work, whether we'd have to go through the provisional thing then the limited moto HP for 2 years thing.

Before we do anything re a drivers license, I think we'll visit a couple of dealers of the possible bikes we're interested in who also advertise insurance in and present them with the problem: "We want to buy this motorcycle from you and obtain insurance for it, figure out how we can do that!"

There are actually three motorbike licenses in UK. The size of engine thing is age related to keep kids from killing themselves.
But if you are an adult you can do it all in two goes and have a full up
ticket when finished. You will be provisional for two years no matter what though. Two speeding offenses and there goes all that hard work.
Im pretty sure you can drive on a USA license for a full year, I did. I know people who have been doing it for years as they go back home every year and return.

We've surrendered and will not be buying bikes in the UK. If we decide we want to ride somewhere for a several-day trip we will just rent them. It seems too difficult to insure (as in 'impossible') a bike purchased here without a UK drivers license even though we are "UK Residents."

Oddly, it's easy to insure our bikes if we shipped them over from the US. Go figure...

Thought I'd update this thread:

Today I called a Kawasaki dealer in Bristol - I'm interested in the Z900RS - and told them the circumstances, then saying, "I want to buy a Z900RS from you but I'm told I can't get insurance unless I have a UK drivers license." They immediately transferred me to an insurance broker and it was no issue at all. So they've already set up a preliminary policy that can be implemented as soon as I give them a VIN number. The broker said they can also set up a policy on my wife's new bike - when she decides which bike that will be.

Although the broker was associated with the Kawasaki dealer, they can obtain insurance for any brand of bike.

Interesting.
Did the broker explain how they are able to work around the restrictions?

What kind of dosh involved?
...would it be possible to get a UK drivers license?

The UK drivers license is a non-starter IMO. If I did that, I would have to go through the learners period, then 2 years of the 47HP or less before I could ride the sort of bike I would actually buy. There is no consideration given by the UK for motorcycle experience on a non-UK license so as far as they are concerned, I'm a beginner. They don't care that I have many years of riding experience with no accidents and that I taught MSF riding in the US.

The insurance price for 3rd party insurance (which is all I want) was 550 pounds for 6 months on a new 10,900 pound Z900RS. I'm sure it would be lower if I had a UK license but I have no problem with the price.

When I told the broker I would be riding on a US license he didn't even hesitate - saying that was no issue at all. Obviously some companies have restrictions re requiring a UK license, other do not. Again, I ASSUME that I'm paying considerably more than a UK-licensed rider would for the same coverage. But that's OK. Renting a bike here is typically around 700 pounds/week so buying/insuring makes a lot more sense to me because I can eventually sell the bike if I choose to and recoup some of the expense.

FWIW, they quoted 750 pounds/6 months for comprehensive coverage.

MexicoMike said:

The UK drivers license is a non-starter IMO. If I did that, I would have to go through the learners period, then 2 years of the 47HP or less before I could ride the sort of bike I would actually buy.

Click to expand...

You should be able to get a UK category 'A' (full) motorcycle driving licence by taking a direct access course although I believe you must pass the CBT and theory tests first.

https://www.safedrivingforlife.info/learners/i-want-ride/direct-access-scheme
http://www.passyourbiketest.co.uk/content/direct-access/

"Direct access scheme

You can get your full (category A) motorcycle licence using the direct access scheme (DAS) if you’re aged 24 or over. You’ll have to pass the motorcycle practical tests on a machine of at least 40 kW (53.6 bhp).

Taking direct access means you’ll have a full motorcycle licence without previously holding a licence for a smaller bike for two years – you’ll have no restriction on the size of machine you can ride."

https://assets.publishing.service.g...le/771244/how-to-get-a-motorcycle-licence.pdf
pdf p.5

"Category A motorcycle (24 or over)"