In defense of the 12N9 lead acid battery system for us kicks

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In defense of the 12N9 lead acid battery system for us kick-starters.

Many here on the forum are into the new fangled and very expensive lithium battery option. Yes they are light and if I would be racing then this would be a way to loose a few pounds and keep drinking my Ginness.
I am going to bark about an old system that is still a good option and much cheaper.
In defense of the 12N9 lead acid battery system for us kicks


7 years of service on the old battery and it showed the tell tail signs of running out of steam. This battery was in my Interstate 7 years ago when I bought it, and is now 11.99 volts just after a week of sitting when it was last charged. I will relegate this old battery to the workbench as a testing unit for power connections and such as I don’t trust it too much further in the bike for reliability reasons.
In defense of the 12N9 lead acid battery system for us kicks


Last week I added electrolyte to the new battery and gave it an 8-hour charge at 500 mAh.
Today I checked the voltage and it shows 12.97 volts after a week of sitting.

In defense of the 12N9 lead acid battery system for us kicks

There is a few detractors who complained that battery acid would get everywhere on the paint so I will show you how I solve the problem with this issue. Two self adhesive backed cable tie mounts, two cable ties, a 35mm film canister with top (clear preferred so you can see into) and a short piece of surgical tubing to fit into the battery overspill tubing that is supplied. A hole drilled in the top cover of the canister with a tight push fit for the surgical tube. All tied together for a cheap system for collecting any acid that may boil off. If you look carefully at the old battery you will see about 1/8th inch at the bottom of the old battery setup of electrolyte. Nothing to spill onto the paint.
In defense of the 12N9 lead acid battery system for us kicks

As you see here, I use a soft rubber battery pad to take up any vibration on the bottom as well as the backside of the 12n9. If you leave the bike for more than a week I would suggest disconnecting the fuse to eliminate any parasitic phantom power drain. Lead acid batteries do not like discharge to go much below 80 percent of full. That’s what kills them off early. I have been pulling my battery out during winter months and keep it inside from the freezing cold winters of Canada. An occasional trickle charge during non-riding months with the battery charger shown in the pix.
Good luck with yours. Now lets see what can of worms I let myself into. Just like another oil thread…. Let the opinions fly.
Cheers,
Thomas
 
Re: In defense of the 12N9 lead acid battery system for us k

I'm with you on lead acid batteries for my combat roadster. They are inexpensive and last as long or longer than the gel cell I tried a few years ago.
 
Re: In defense of the 12N9 lead acid battery system for us k

How does the battery vent? The 35mm film can looks like it is sealed tight.
 
Re: In defense of the 12N9 lead acid battery system for us k

Another vote for the 12N9 batteries, they are cheap and last a long time. I understand that the expensive lithium batteries will not last very long on our Nortons due to the rather crude charging system, a 1Volt overvoltage can already cause damage to a lithium battery.
 
Re: In defense of the 12N9 lead acid battery system for us k

I'm not worried about weight. The easiest way to lower it would be to stop drinking!

I like AGMs :https://www.batteriesplus.com/battery/motorcycle/norton/commando/850cc/1975/cyl10015

10% off if you order online and pick up in store plus a $10 mail-in coupon.

No maintenance, no spill, relatively inexpensive.
 
Re: In defense of the 12N9 lead acid battery system for us k

For the most part I am OK with lead acid. My biggest focus though is to get the correct battery for my preference and model of bike.
KISS method:
12N9-3A-1
YB9L-A2
or AGM is OK too.
For 71-74 commando, I get the battery with terminals on the "back"/oil tank side and with the vent to the rear.
This allows the original long vent tube to pass down the back passing the swing arm mount to within a short distance from the ground. No engineered small capacity vent storage required. Clears the chrome mufflers, oil filter, rear fender, horn and chain.

For the "S" oil tank this does not apply nor does it for the MKIII
Little real experience with fastback oil tank bikes, but my basic principles would still apply.

Lithium and gel cell are off my menu :roll:
 
Re: In defense of the 12N9 lead acid battery system for us k

CanukNortonNut said:
In defense of the 12N9 lead acid battery system for us kick-starters...I am going to bark about an old system that is still a good option and much cheaper...

There is a few detractors who complained that battery acid would get everywhere on the paint so I will show you how I solve the problem with this issue.

Two self adhesive backed cable tie mounts, two cable ties, a 35mm film canister with top (clear preferred so you can see into) and a short piece of surgical tubing to fit into the

battery overspill tubing that is supplied...Good luck with yours. Now lets see what can of worms I let myself into. Just like another oil thread…Let the opinions fly. Cheers, Thomas
This looks like a good thing, CanukNortonNut! I just have one question ...What is a - "film" - canister. :roll:
 
Re: In defense of the 12N9 lead acid battery system for us k

what is the downside of gel batteries?
 
Re: In defense of the 12N9 lead acid battery system for us k

seattle##gs said:
what is the downside of gel batteries?

I admit to not having any first hand experience.
However a friend who owns a expensive euro bike got a new battery from the dealer and it requires a charger with a higher voltage than used on the lead acid or AGM. So now... the bike was not required to be modified for this higher voltage and while I believe the gel will work, but be chronically under charged. This may be why they seem to die easily, and it keeps you coming back for more $$$$$ dealer= :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Maybe not conclusive but LA and AGM work fine/last long time for me
 
Re: In defense of the 12N9 lead acid battery system for us k

Nothing wrong with lead acid, but Agm is superior in every way except price. Main benefit of AGM is exceptionally low self discharge rate. Personally I would not use Gel, and lithium far too fragile/tetchy.
 
Re: In defense of the 12N9 lead acid battery system for us k

I'm with Clanger .... once you try an AGM battery you would see zero advantage going back to the outdated L/A battery .... AGM just have that ease of use thing going on ..... plus if you concerned 'bout cost difference you probably would not be riding a Norton Commando or any other Classic bike ....
Craig
 
Re: In defense of the 12N9 lead acid battery system for us k

Craig said:
I'm with Clanger .... once you try an AGM battery you would see zero advantage going back to the outdated L/A battery .... AGM just have that ease of use thing going on ..... plus if you concerned 'bout cost difference you probably would not be riding a Norton Commando or any other Classic bike ....
Craig

+1000

My go-to battery for all my powersports (sleds, ATV's, bikes) http://www.federalbatteries.com.au/file ... OCHURE.pdf

FLA batteries are only slightly cheaper, and the POTENTIAL for an acid leak/damaged machinery is not worth it to me.
 
Re: In defense of the 12N9 lead acid battery system for us k

For 71-74 commando, I get the battery with terminals on the "back"/oil tank side and with the vent to the rear.
This allows the original long vent tube to pass down the back passing the swing arm mount to within a short distance from the ground. No engineered small capacity vent storage required. Clears the chrome mufflers, oil filter, rear fender, horn and chain.


I had been mounting my battery this way for years, with the terminals in the back, worried about the metal hold-down bar being too close to the terminals.
But last week, when I had it out, I decided to better insulate the hold-down bar and put the terminals facing out. I really like the improved safety factor, being able to disconnect the battery right away by pulling the ground wire as soon as the side cover comes off. A few months ago, my buddy Dave was fiddling with one of his bikes and got a very nasty burn on the wrist, sending 12 volts through his watch band. Not nice..
I had a vent tube come off once and the drip from the battery burned the paint off the frame. So now I use a sealed unit and don't have to add water, either. Still lead acid, works great.
 
Re: In defense of the 12N9 lead acid battery system for us k

cjandme said:
This looks like a good thing, CanukNortonNut! I just have one question ...What is a - "film" - canister. :roll:
Before the Digital camera when Kodak ruled. Kodachrome 64 Film...google is your friend.
Cheers,
Thomas
 
Re: In defense of the 12N9 lead acid battery system for us k

Craig said:
I'm with Clanger .... once you try an AGM battery you would see zero advantage going back to the outdated L/A battery .... AGM just have that ease of use thing going on ..... plus if you concerned 'bout cost difference you probably would not be riding a Norton Commando or any other Classic bike ....
Craig
Can someone give me a service life cycle on the AGM. Real world. Are there any out there that have +5 years or more?
Cheers,
Thomas
 
Re: In defense of the 12N9 lead acid battery system for us k

I installed an Odyssey PC680 AGM in a BMW K1200GT May 2010 and its still going strong. Like most new bikes the K has a
parasitic load all the time so I put a Battery Tender on it once a month or so in the winter. Or pull the negative cable off.

I've a cheaper AGM in the Norton thats about five years old. The Norton doesn't have any current draw when the key is
off so I connect the Tender a little less often. I'm not a fan of leaving a Tender on the battery full time in the off season.

AGM's have better storage life, more resistant to freezing damage in sub zero, no more acid stains and most can be installed
on their sides.

Still its hard to beat lead acid for cost/performance especially in large deep cycle storage applications; but for bikes,
snowmachine, ATV and etc. AGM is great value.
 
Re: In defense of the 12N9 lead acid battery system for us k

You could consider a smaller 8AH battery if you don't need enough power to crank a starter motor, Smaller, lighter, easily fitted and removed, with more space around it. Sealed lead acid in the UK are about £25 (Numax)
 
Re: In defense of the 12N9 lead acid battery system for us k

CanukNortonNut said:
Craig said:
I'm with Clanger .... once you try an AGM battery you would see zero advantage going back to the outdated L/A battery .... AGM just have that ease of use thing going on ..... plus if you concerned 'bout cost difference you probably would not be riding a Norton Commando or any other Classic bike ....
Craig
Can someone give me a service life cycle on the AGM. Real world. Are there any out there that have +5 years or more?
Cheers,
Thomas
12 years for the Yuasa YTX-20 that came new in my 2005 Ski-Doo GSX800HO, delivered to me October 2004. Been in my sled all winters, vintage bike summers. Just got weak. 10+ years for all the other ones I've had.
 
Re: In defense of the 12N9 lead acid battery system for us k

The Panasonic AGM in my Miata lasted 15 years, but those batteries were exceptional. Same thing with the LA in my Dakota, 16 years. The Yuasa 14AH AGM I got from Clubman in 05 still holds 12.9V, but does not allow me to start the bike without a charger on the battery, it must be suffering from old age, it works fine once the bike is started though. It prolly wouldn't work with the lights on though. As far as Gel cell batteries, look them up, vibration kills them, that's why the AGM was invented, for helo's, which in turn is a good idea for motorcycles. I like the AGM despite the price.
 
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