Improving the ride

As much as I like my 71 Roadster the ride quality is extremely harsh compared to my 07 Suzuki Bandit. I realize the Bandit is years ahead technology wise but it was built to a pretty low price point. Having said that I'd like to do what I can to smooth out the Norton ride. It is bone jarring going over bumps of any size, and makes it really hard on my 60 year old back.The forks were rebuilt with new stock dampers and bushings and filled with the recommended amount of 50wt oil. New steering head bearings too. Rear shocks and springs are new last year, I think Emgo's but not sure. (they were better than the sacked out originals I took off) I know it will never be what a modern bike is without drastic alterations/replacement of the forks and swingarm, but there has to be something to make it just a tad less antiquated feeling on my antiquated spine.

you put in 50 weight oil in the forks?

then not surprised at the harsh feeling, way too heavy

the forum consensus is around a 15 weight fork specific oil

Ya, 50w, no way.

There are good things you can do with those forks, but try some lighter oil first.

You can spend your life savings on rear shocks, but a simple set of Hagons' will go far to improve your ride. Different spring rate are available to match you weight.

Different spring rate are available to match you weight.

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Pete makes a very good point

I have the Hagons with the 18 pound springs (versus 20) and they are perfect for my 170 pounds

it is possible your springs are too hard

otherwise, there are a number of very good aftermarket kits for your front forks that lengthen the travel and provide much better dampening

Ugh yep 50 grade is way too thick even in clapped out Roadholers. The racers found the grades listed by fork fluid makers are all over the map by a dozen points or more. I'd suggest try a scope of fluids to see what your forks and you like. Rough stuff is routine to me, ugh, and had my SV650 suspension upgraded according to their forum like this one towards the off road guys findings was distinctly made handier w/o as much jarring but its still not as nice comfy or secure as my pure factory Combat with standard shocks/springs and 20-50 wt in plain ole forks. 20-50 means it don't get thinner than 20 in Winter and only thins out as much as 50 when hot as unlikely inside forks. Its possible the fork stancions rusted rough so springs binding. Fiddle with tire pressure too. Commandos made for cobble stone pavement should be one the most jar absorbing smooth comfy cycles ever sold. If still not happy 3-4 upgrade options exist.

I agree that you have way too much viscosity going on there. Go to any dealer with good fork oil and get a good synthetic that is @ 15 weight.
Pull off a single rear shock and check whether thou are riding on the springs or if there is any hydraulic damping. Many old Brit bike shocks are shot. Hagon makes a good replacement shock.
Mike

Been though shot shocks to say they bounce ya a lot but not transmit jarring, only spring rates do that in the rear.

Could be wrong on the fork oil weight, but I used what the Haynes manual recommended ( Haynes...the great mystery novel of shop manuals) I thought of using regular 15 or 20 wt fork oil, but decide to go by the book. Live and learn. I have the rear springs on the second from lowest preload setting. I was bottoming out on the lowest, perhaps I still am on the bigger lumps. I'll try the next step up and see what happens.

Change the fork oil before you assess the rear shock. They work together - you wont get a good idea of how they are working with the rigid fork you have now.

I think you told me Windy had recommended TWENTY-50, and you went with it.

I took poetic license, used straight 30 Kal-Gard Smooth Stroke fork oil, and it's hammers like hell, until the temps are in the 70's, and then all is well.
Perhaps if they groom your trail, er, I mean grade your road some.. :lol:

as mentioned change your fork oil - and as far as rear shocks you pay for what you get. I know some people like the hagons (or emgos) but i think (as do others) their crap and if you plan on serious riding i'd look elsewhere. If the ride doesn't improve to your liking after the oil weight change, you can think about other rear shock alternatives. a forum search would help but the NJB racing shocks are a (NJB CLASSIC RACING) very good shock for the $ but are not intended for 2 up riding if that matters. if you want to splash for very good shocks works performance (i have them on both my commandos in addition to 2 of my laverdas(1200 and RGS) ) are very good shocks as are the Gazi which for the $ are very good as they have adjustable rebound in addition to preload selection (i have these on my SF2 laverda). make sure too that your swing arm moves free as a frozen swing arm spindle from lack of lubrication can make the ride incredibly harsh and fool one into thinking there shocks/forks are f'd

I HAVE BEEN USING HYDRAULIC OILIN MY FRON SHOCKS FOR YEARS. [ it is designed exactly for this purpose and you can buy it in 4 l cans etc at a far cheaper price than you may buy what is called fork oil ] I don't have a problem like you have mentioned, but my wife has when I take her for a ride. When we bottom out on pot holes etc, it hurts her. I like the design of the seat for solo riding but it's no dam good for 2 up. Does anyone know the answer to this problem without paying a fortune for a new seat. I have already added a soft layer of foam on top of the original, and under the cover, but this is no the answer. People talk about gel seats??? what goes there. Rather than learn by my I would feel better hearing about what mistakes others have made in this regard. If the answer is to buy a new seat, I would need to know it is going to work. Regards, Dereck

easiest answer i can think of is not taking the wife for a ride (on the norton) :mrgreen: :lol:

kerinorton said:

I HAVE BEEN USING HYDRAULIC OILIN MY FRON SHOCKS FOR YEARS. [ it is designed exactly for this purpose and you can buy it in 4 l cans etc at a far cheaper price than you may buy what is called fork oil ] I don't have a problem like you have mentioned, but my wife has when I take her for a ride. When we bottom out on pot holes etc, it hurts her. I like the design of the seat for solo riding but it's no dam good for 2 up. Does anyone know the answer to this problem without paying a fortune for a new seat. I have already added a soft layer of foam on top of the original, and under the cover, but this is no the answer. People talk about gel seats??? what goes there. Rather than learn by my I would feel better hearing about what mistakes others have made in this regard. If the answer is to buy a new seat, I would need to know it is going to work. Regards, Dereck

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used what the Haynes manual recommended

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Yep all the manuals have some mis leading errors to get past.
Factory rear spring rates are about 80-120 which is not enough to prevent 2 up bottoming out thunk through the sacrum regardless of the quality of the dampening guts. I weigh 160-70 suited up and every few rides hit rut or lump that hits my tail hard enough to force involuntary sound out my throat on top the shock and pissed off emotion I did see it coming and limits to keeping one pure factory. Still by far jarring short of bottoming is fork dampening issue. Still me and Wes are most pleased with our commandos lack of jarring compared to our moderns. Keep at it as pure joy solo or two up is lurking.

50 weight oil will have little effect on stock forks, before i met Duncan Fitchett [lansdowne racer] he used 140 gear oil.
Norton forks have little to no compression damping, and as the fork hits a bump,the compression shock is not an issue, the fork will simply compress..or should?

There can be other issues
Mis-aligned stanchion/sliders due to twisted yolk's ,common on these old machines.
Worn sliders ,well after 40 years , ? I am awaiting a new pair of sliders from Mick Hemmings this week for a seeley,the owner thought new bush's should have been OK, I measured approx 4 thou wear in the " most used" area...i replaced a set with 10 thou wear !
This wear is the" invisable" problem, due to the lower steel bush ,over time the spring Zig Zag snake rubs the stanchion inner wall,this wear that is clearly seen produce's metal shards to mix with the oil,to produce a cutting paste...many ..and i mean many past owners have never checked or changed the fork oil.
Its only now owners are spending time on maintenance...come on who reading this can say..." i changed my fork oil every year" I'm the first to admit it
yolks, any past damage [low speed inpact will bend them] only a dry assembly placed on a inspection table will show up this issue, i doubt anyone as this at hand?

So before you think a bush set will restore you forks...check every thing...its not easy..getting things ""right "" never is!

I suggest you are probably being a bit cruel when you compare the comfort of a modern bike with the old commando. The main difference is the amount of suspension travel. On a modern bike with a lot of travel, the spring rate is lower and the shocks are absorbed over a greater length of piston travel inside the shock absorbers with lower viscosity oil or less damper restriction. If you try to make the commando suspension do that, I think you would run into difficulties. I once built a Suzuki T250 racer, and changed the top mounts of the rear shocks, so they laid down much more - the handling and comfort was much better, however not as good as a Yamaha monoshock. The back of the bike became higher, and relatively the travel was much greater. When you do that the steering geometry alters more under power and the handling is different. If you compare the suspension travel of 60s bikes with that of the late 70s, on MX bikes the travel changed from 2 inches to about 5 inches. The move to the Yamaha monoshock was what made the later 70s road race TZs (F &G) handle much better than TR3s or TZ A & B, which had dual shock (upright) rear ends.
I suggest you should measure the travel on your Suzuki Bandit and compare it with your Commando for the same load.

concours said:

I think you told me Windy had recommended TWENTY-50, and you went with it.

Perhaps if they groom your trail, er, I mean grade your road some.. :lol:

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20W50 it is/was now that I think of it. Doing something about the cow paths the state of NH calls roads would be a big help but the state is too busy using DOT funds to pay for police enforcement rather than actually fix roads....but I digress! I'm gonna change to 15W fork oil and see what happens.

After you deal with the easy stuff like proper fork oil, you might consider this:
http://decentcycles.com/how-to/95-fauth-fork-modification-kit
I do not have experience with it, but maybe someone else here does?

I did just upgrade from the old Girling rear shocks to Hagons. Very nice improvement!

Crap that kit almost never happened as if ya think I get flak here on hobot Roadholder mods, Greg literally attacked me in public and in private calling me a liar as he could not get his forks past 4" till after almost 4 mo of this I told him he's got a bad component hanging up and sure enough he found it in lower bushes and was so surprised/pleased he asked permission to supply a kit that has now drained the world supply of Ford 8N & 9N valve springs but many other spring combos possible for sag level and multi rate springs as ya like. With Greg's tight fitting damper cap and the thicker damper rod ya can take a few 1000'th off the tube in section that takes up the inch or so of normal nuance road texture travel and just gets better the rougher the going so pot hole hunting is side line hobby of more than one user of this crude simple upgrade. The valve springs supplied were lucky guess by me picking through a machine shop shelves but does sit it over inch taller in front sag and extends 2" on powered leans so Cdo can tip over rather further to avoid hi side w/o fouling> pogo off the deck. With Peels tri-links I really don't look at road racing as much thrill any more as so secure and smooth I'm aiming more as the wilder off road events and fun play running creek beds and raw woods Mt side crashing. Forks can be put back to stock simple as pie too.

50 w oil in Roadholders is much too thick fork oil; they don’t even recommend that in the workshop manual.
I never liked the harshness of the Norton forks but when I had my bike I didn’t know any different and I must confess I cannot comprehend the cheap
modification that you can do to a pair of Roadholders to improve the amount of travel whilst softening them at the same time. I wish I could.