Ignition. Here we go again!!! Tri Spark??

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aries

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Hi All
Took the Norton out 4 weeks ago, running just fine. Today, thought go for a run but Instead spent 1 hour trying to start the bike again. I hate to say it but the symptoms are familiar to me now. Lots of popping muffled back firing and a hint its gonna get going, but no. Im going to suspect the Tri-Spark unit again. This is the third unit in two years from Steve Kelly. Am I just unlucky because each one only lasts about two thousand miles. Two previous Units returned to Steve have reported failed resistors and Im becoming paranoid. However, having said that, with the plugs out there is a healthy spark and the Units red light shows!!. Will tinker further sometime, but if it is the unit again--Im done with it Im afraid.
Any thoughts out there folks??
 
aries said:
Hi All
Took the Norton out 4 weeks ago, running just fine. Today, thought go for a run but Instead spent 1 hour trying to start the bike again. I hate to say it but the symptoms are familiar to me now. Lots of popping muffled back firing and a hint its gonna get going, but no. Im going to suspect the Tri-Spark unit again. This is the third unit in two years from Steve Kelly. Am I just unlucky because each one only lasts about two thousand miles. Two previous Units returned to Steve have reported failed resistors and Im becoming paranoid. However, having said that, with the plugs out there is a healthy spark and the Units red light shows!!. Will tinker further sometime, but if it is the unit again--Im done with it Im afraid.
Any thoughts out there folks??
Click to expand...

sounds like idle circuit plugged - did you try cleaning your carb - quick dis-assembly and carb cleaner squirt through it may do wonders
 
swooshdave said:
Healthy spark? What else do you want from the TriSpark?
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yes and while i don't think its the EI - just because it sparks with plug out don't mean it will when their in the motor & under compression
 
mikegray660 said:
swooshdave said:
Healthy spark? What else do you want from the TriSpark?
Click to expand...

yes and while i don't think its the EI - just because it sparks with plug out don't mean it will when their in the motor & under compression
Click to expand...

Correct me if I'm wrong but if it doesn't work under load it might be the coils?

Gas sitting in the carbs for 4 weeks could easy gunk up something.
 
aries said:
Hi All
Took the Norton out 4 weeks ago, running just fine. Today, thought go for a run but Instead spent 1 hour trying to start the bike again. I hate to say it but the symptoms are familiar to me now. Lots of popping muffled back firing quote]

Hi Aries,

Do you have resistor caps on yr plugs ? or Resistor plugs ?

Is your battery fully charged. Low voltage can create what you describe.

Have you tried to start with a plug lead disconnected (this can cause permanent damage).

Usually something simple.
Click to expand...
 
Put me down as a subscriber to the gunked carbs club.

If mine has been stood for more than a couple of weeks I can almost guarantee that at least one of the pilot jets will be blocked, with the symptoms you describe.
Easy remedy - remove pilot screw and use fine wire to clear the blockage. I find the brass wire used to dress up wine bottles is perfect, as it's unlikely to damage the jet.

If mine hasn't started by the third kick, I know there's a problem, and it's always been this issue. Coincidentlally, I've been using a fibreglass tank, and have just swapped to steel, so I'm anticipating fewer issues in future...I hope!

I'm running a Tri Spark with no issues so far, but haven't done any huge rides yet, maybe 1k since rebuild.
 
Thanks for your replies chaps. Perhaps crap fuel these days has more of a tendancy to foul the carbs up. forty years of Norton ownership has not raised too many blockages as suggested, but will certainly investigate that possability. New spark plugs shall also try. The coils are Tri Sparks own, fitted a while ago, when the last ignition unit failed and thought it may be a coil, so dont envisage a problem there?
Unfortunately I wont be able to tinker further for a while as Norton and I are living apart for the time being!! Once up and running again though I shall stick some fuel stabiliser in the petrol. Dont fancy potentially carb dissasembly prior to a run!!
Hopefully carbs is where the problem lies otherwise next time its gonna be a Pazon Altair.
 
Would all the power for your Tri-Spark be going through a Kill switch? If so clean the thing deep inside.
 
aries said:
Once up and running again though I shall stick some fuel stabiliser in the petrol. Dont fancy potentially carb dissasembly prior to a run!!
Hopefully carbs is where the problem lies otherwise next time its gonna be a Pazon Altair.
Click to expand...

if not running to often you can drain the carb bowl, or run the bike till it dies w/ petcock off - saves potential grief gumming up
 
Hi Again
Battery okay. Kill switch, well maybe worth a once over but has a spark and was running fine few weeks back. Cos they dont like standing around and bloody gremlins can get in. Perseverance eh.
 
It's chicken or egg what came first dirty kill switch or goofed spark plugs. Bad contacts at the kill equal bad plugs because of an under preforming ign. system. always start here with problem as you discribed. Next test is a load test of the battery leaving the head light on for three minutes than without turning it off what are the battery volts anything under 12 is the problem. This needs to be engraved in stone around here it's got to be the 400 th time.
 
aries said:
The coils are Tri Sparks own, fitted a while ago, when the last ignition unit failed .
Click to expand...

Bad earths, bad wiring including connectors and chaffed insulation can kill electronic ignitions. You also need to be running the correct plug resistance or this will kill the electronics. If you have lost 2 ignitions already it would be worth checking all associated wiring.

Hope its something simple.
 
This might help you. I had a similar problem with the tri spark system. I would time it correctly start it and it would run fine . The next time I started it it would do the same thing as you describe. I took the stator off and discovered that the rotor bar had loosened on the cam shaft end. retimed and damned if it did not happen again. I cleaned the inside of the cam orifice and lightly sanded the rotor plate area that mates with the cam and retimed and carefully retightened the bolt. Has not jumped timing since. I also ran into a problem that I thought was associated with the timing again but was actually fuel related. I used fuel valve taps that I got from a supplier off E-Bay. Brand new, looked nice but exposure to the fuel here in the US caused the internal rubber gaskets to swell and partially disintegrate blocking the fuel. The bike would start and idle well, run up to 3000= rpm, then as it was given more throttle the engine faded and broke down. I removed the taps and checked the flow, hardly any. Visual inspection showed a blocked fuel tap. I ordered teflon push taps from a supplier in the UK. Hope this helps. Craig
 
I know this is an ancient thread but I'm having what seems like exactly the same symptoms on my TR7, which also has Trispark ignition and coils. I'm wondering, did you ever get to the bottom of it Aries? Or does anyone else have know;edge / experience of failing Trispak systems? Thanks.
 
I thought the Tri Spark had failed on my Commando. Steve Kelly sent me a newer model at a discount so I just fitted it without much thought. But I have had problems with the kill switch, so as others have said, it's worth checking/cleaning/bypassing it. That might have been the cause all along.
Recently the timing slipped several degrees. I re-timed it and the same thing happened again. I think the rotor is slipping because the Tri Spark taper is smaller than the Norton one, so it's relying on the bolt pressing the shoulder of the rotor onto the end of the camshaft. I couldn't think of a way to get a better fit on the taper so I just made sure the bolt was tight and Loctited and so far it seems to be OK. But it would be better to have a snug fitting taper.
 
Hi All.
Just noticed my 2011 thread has come up again.
All I can say is that by finally fitting a Pazon unit, uv had no more ignition issues and can again ride in confidence.
 
Thanks for your responses Aries & Commiedommie. Steve Kelly gave me a load of tests to do and has finally decided it is the Trispark module at fault. He's sending me another one, which is good (it is still within the 3 year guarantee). But to be frank, I've lost confidence in the product. I got 4500 miles from mine before it suddenly packed up. I don't want to go through this again.

I have had the timing slip issue too. I don't know why Trispark rotors aren't made the same as the Lucas mechanical AAUs, with a deep taper and a cutout for the peg in the camshaft. I am going to try a smear of Threebond on taper before fitting to the camshaft next time - that should hold it but still be removeable.

So, to summarise, you reckon it was definitely the Trispark at fault each time, Aries?

It would be interesting to hear from anyone else who has experienced similar issues with these. It seems that almost everybody loves them if you do a Google search (which is why I bought one in the first place). But maybe a lot of them get fitted to bikes that hardly get used?
 
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