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Herringbone Oil Hose Fail

Discussion in 'Norton Commando Motorcycles (Classic)' started by PeterJoe, Nov 13, 2018.

  1. PeterJoe

    PeterJoe

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2011
    I took my Norton out for a ride a day before the Hansen Dam ride. I figured I would give it a good shake down. When I returned home I was surprised to see that the feed oil hose was wet with oil. I didn't see any other source of that oil except from the hose itself. On closer inspection I discovered that it had many cracks on the full length of the hose. I ran over to the Auto Parts store for a piece of replacement hose so that I could go on the Hansen Dam adventure.

    That Herringbone hose was purchased new with Andover Norton packaging and was installed in April 2015. I figured that hose would last me a good 40 years, but boy was I wrong. The rest of the hoses on my bike are original and they still look good. Apparently Andover Norton does not sell this hose anymore however, if you happen to see one for sale with Andover Norton packaging you might want to pass on it otherwise you could be disappointed in the not too distant future.

    I'm not sure if my hose was actually leaking but after going 230 miles round trip on the Hansen Dam ride with the replacement hose there were no signs of leakage.

    I had also replaced the large herringbone breather hose from Andover Norton about 5 years ago. On close inspection that hose looks fine with no cracks at all.

    Here are a couple of pictures of what I found
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Peter Joe
     
  2. xbacksideslider

    xbacksideslider VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2010
    It's too common, inadequate rubber compounds - foot peg/gear changer rubbers are usually awful too. Replaced my isolastic rubber bellows a few year ago - now cracking. The compound used in carb to airbox bellows is often poor too. I wonder what the better compounds are called, so that we can demand and then expect the right ones.
     
  3. Saber13

    Saber13 VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2010
    It appears to be a herringbone pattern only. I thought turn herringbone hose had imbedded fiber in the exterior of the hose making the pattern to add strength not just looks.
     
  4. concours

    concours VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2011
    Agreed, and, not just Norton parts, but many others as well.
     
  5. KiwiNeill

    KiwiNeill

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2011
    Peter Joe
    Best to use readily available, high quality modern fuel and oil hoses like SAE J30 R6 or R9. Reinforced with high working pressure and temperature, it,s ideal for all bikes or cars and is date stamped. Smooth satin black finish looks great.
    Your cracked herringbone reminds me of a similar experience years ago, never used it again.
     
  6. B+Bogus

    B+Bogus

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2009
    I seem to remember the herringbone stuff being really expensive when it became available again recently - maybe it was found in the back of a warehouse somewhere...
    Even at trade price it's extortionate.
    The spec states that it's made from nitrile rubber on 'the original Dunlop Mandril' (sic), so looks to be newly manufactured, albeit badly.

    I've also had a few 'new' rubber items fail. Ironically the original herringbone breather hoses I've had on a couple of bikes have never been a problem.

    Some of the repro Ducati stuff I've bought is manufactured from silicon based rubber, so no life-expiry issues.
    Aircraft rubber goods have the cure date documented for every item, and once it hits ten years it gets scrapped, including unused stuff on the shelf.
    As KiwiNeil says, Spec. conforming product with traceability is best.
     
  7. Madnorton

    Madnorton

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2008
    All the current Herringbone hose comes form one place, whether for Triumph, Norton, BSA etc. It was an alternative that was allowed for iaw with the drawings when the cloth covered hose was no longer obtainable way back around 1970 or even earlier (will have to look) The correct DIN or SAE spec hose for hot engine oil is ideal, beware of some of the 'modern' materials, very good but usually have a limiting factor which needs to be avoided, some are great for hot contaminated engine oil, but have poor UV resistance etc.
     
  8. elefantrider

    elefantrider VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2013
    Use this if you want a fabric cover:

    https://www.oldbritts.com/54_800005.html

    Gates Oil Line, 3/8 ID, 300 PSI (part # 54-800005, $4.66 per foot). This hose has a woven cloth exterior similar looking to the original oil hoses and the following hoses are made from this hose:
    • Oil Line, Feed/Return, 17", 3/8 ID (part # 06-2200/G, $7.50)
    • Oil Line, Return, 12", 3/8 ID (part # 06-3144/G, $5.00)
    • Oil Line, Feed, 15", 3/8 ID (part # 06-2201/G, $6.70)
    Or Eaton Weatherhead hose, available at most NAPA stores.

    Those two reputable hose brands will have you covered for a while longer.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2018
  9. Frankie17

    Frankie17

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2015
    All the herringbone hose does not originate from the same supplier

    the correct quality hose does still have a nitrile inner liner with visable cloth braiding layer between inner hose and outer covering and is only available in short lenghts maximum now 5 feet the original Dunlop tooling is about shot and the herringbone embossed pattern also looks very poor but it still exists the piece in the photo is a repro item which has been around for a few years and is considerably cheaper in both construction and price

    the reason no one will stock product from the manufacturer holding the original tooling is price and availability difficult to get and very expensive when available

    if you are paying less than £25.00 per foot then i would question its origin and specification
     
  10. jimbo

    jimbo VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2004
    so where do you buy the good herringbone hose?
     
  11. NortonMKIIA850

    NortonMKIIA850

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2017
  12. Madnorton

    Madnorton

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2008
    I know exactly where the 2 pieces of original Dunlop equipment are and there is nothing wrong with it at all. The problem is that there is no one in the company suitably trained to use the sleeve weaving machine, though there are some that can lay up the sleeves once woven. The reason it is now 5' lengths is that the ends of the correct size sleeve are worn and thus these ends are discarded.

    I have tried hard to get them to make new sleeves and would be prepared to order massive amounts, but they can't justify the time and manpower.
     
  13. jimbo

    jimbo VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2004
    can I get good 5ft pieces?
     
  14. jimbo

    jimbo VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2004
  15. Deets55

    Deets55 VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2013
    Second one is clearly marked “fuel”. May not be a good option for hot oil.
     
  16. jimbo

    jimbo VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2004
    good eye:), I will email the seller to ask why the advertised oil hose is marked for fuel
     
  17. Frankie17

    Frankie17

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2015
    for the correct herringbone hose ask a dealer with a Wassell account

    they still have some sizes and lenghts in stock ( but it is expensive ) and may be the last batch of the real macoy if Madnortons post is correct
     
  18. BA10BOON

    BA10BOON

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2012
    The repro Herringbone hose has been around for a while, and is substandard unfortunately. Madnorton is correct regarding production of the original hose.
     
  19. jimbo

    jimbo VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2004
    heres what the seller has to say about the "fuel" stamped onto the oil hose( I will email AN to see what they have to say about that)

    To be honest I can not speak for the tech specs of this hose. We purchase this hose from Andover Norton - it is packaged from Andover Norton in the UK - We have been selling this type of "Herringbone" line for oil and fuel delivery for the 25 years I have been doing this and for as long as British Only has been selling parts (over 40+ years now). That is the very best HONEST answer I can give you. Scott

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/253386894448?ViewItem=&item=253386894448
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2018
  20. batrider

    batrider

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2008
    $57.70 for 17.5" - - no thanks. Are they crazy? No wonder it is rotted.