Gus Kuhn Seeley Commando

I got a laugh out of reading this:

http://www.guskuhn.net/GKMLtd/Racing/BM ... ceTest.htm

Amazing how things have changed. Anyone that has ridden a modern sport bike knows it’s easy to hit 130mph just passing traffic. Doing a ton was a big deal for a long time. Now you can do it on the way to work!

Mine :

Roadrash said:

Amazing how things have changed. Anyone that has ridden a modern sport bike knows it’s easy to hit 130mph just passing traffic. Doing a ton was a big deal for a long time. Now you can do it on the way to work!

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It is different on a race circuit especially a tight one. 130 MPH on Brands Hatch is probably really hammering on an old bike, even today. Our local circuit at Winton has three straights on it, the V8 supercars do about 200 KPH on the longest, and the superbike lap times are about a second a lap faster. It is very deceptive, you don't know you are going fast until you are facing the sweeper on full noise - then reality bites even on my old bike. You have to have enough power to drive around it without spearing off into the boonies. The numbers don't mean anything when you are actually doing it.
Have you had a look at this? - it is really beautiful :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKNVj9U6ymY

Speed is always relative ?

The "straight " at Brands Hatch ( they're talking about the short circuit here, not the 2.65 mile GP circuit) is hardly a straight at all. It starts with a slow right hander that opens out gradually so you have to ease the throttle on gently, it's slightly downhill, toward the grid then is up hill until the next corner so 115MPH on a classic bike is going some.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhtUOyvWXm8

Indeed, it does say in the 2nd sentence there that this is "at the end of the 1.24-mile circuit's main straight".
So if the whole circuit is 1.24 miles, then the 'straight' isn't going to be much...

I've seen Brands in action, where is this short track in relation to the main track.
Is is just a shorter version, using parts of the main track ?

Rohan said:

Indeed, it does say in the 2nd sentence there that this is "at the end of the 1.24-mile circuit's main straight".
So if the whole circuit is 1.24 miles, then the 'straight' isn't going to be much...

I've seen Brands in action, where is this short track in relation to the main track.
Is is just a shorter version, using parts of the main track ?

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It's just a shorter version of the main circuit.

If you look at that video, at turn 4 they do a left /right and back to the start. On the full circuit they do a hard left and head off into the trees and rejoin at the right going back to the start.

Google Brands Hatch on google maps it's quite clera on there.

Looking over the fence is not the same as doing it. I still watch historic races and think the guys are going slow, and I know what it is like out there. On any race bike it is easy to do a big number on yourself if you get stupid. What you see is NOT what you get. I don't think that In Victoria we would get much over 100 MPH on an historic bike on any circuit except Phillip Island, and a get-off there is always a big one. The thing is about carving people up in the tight sections of race circuits without ending up on the deck yourself. To my mind, it is more important to have the bike excellent on the tight stuff even if it tends to run out of steam towards the ends of the straights.

Pommie John, Looking at that video of Brands, I would really love to do that, it is my kind of circuit. The straights are not long enough for the guys with top end motors to really get going. It looks as though a lot of people would find it very difficult if they were used to 'point and squirt' handling. An underpowered bike which handled well would not be at a great disadvantage there ?

acotrel said:

Pommie John, Looking at that video of Brands, I would really love to do that, it is my kind of circuit. The straights are not long enough for the guys with top end motors to really get going. It looks as though a lot of people would find it very difficult if they were used to 'point and squirt' handling. An underpowered bike which handled well would not be at a great disadvantage there ?

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Brands short circuit is great.

Gravel trap at the end of the start finish straight is very effective at containing errant riders too.

I know!

Here's a clip of one of the best classic races I've ever seen - King of Brands - illustrating the short circuit at Brands and the closeness of racing: Lea Gourlay on a 350 Manx and Richard Parker on a Honda 350

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFvpHYWjaDE[/video]

Shame Lea was "forced into retirement" a couple of years ago. He was an island unto his own in our little racing world.

Watching that video makes me want to cry. The worst thing I ever do is look back on my life and think about what could have been. At the time when I should have been at my best I was stuffed in the head from the stressful job and the stressful marriage. We all need to know when to walk away and do something for ourselves . Life is too short, so fellas - keep your dicks under control.

Looks like they were tied together with an eight foot long rope. Clearly, smooth is fast.

Duh plenty of video on GP, IOM and Irish racers that demo the leaders are wobbling and jerking around the cycle to get best times, smooth only works in the milder conditions and if not enough power to kick up heels. What it boils down too is how long and how much power can be put down and hook up on leans, sometimes its better to not let rear skip or spin out other times it get the bike re-aligned quicker to skip-kick-drift-jerk around then back to smoother power planting. Another vital thing THE Gravel and Grass have taught me - is cycles can take spikes of input loads to change aim or recover lost control-traction but can't hold steady states leaned or smoothly accelerating loads very long in leaned condition. Some day hope to show ya what I mean. Its nerve wracking to ride just a little past smooth states as every cycle minus one gets so unpredicable its pure luck not to crash, so wise corner cripple rides tend to stay just short of lost of control reasonances building up by going around slower than actually possible. The more tire size-width-profile that's run the smoother you better be or starts deforming patch and walking around a few inches on either side of front and rear tires which is very upsetting to experience or control above some smooth level so yep corner cripple better be handle delicately or else. Balloon tires only needed to handle heat as patches are all very similar, except for flat drag slick and side car hacks.

Steve, road racing is all about 'practice makes perfect'. You start slow and work up to the corners and when you've gone around each slightly out of control you know your limit without crashing. It also works the other way when you get on the gas coming out of corners progressively earlier. The more you practice the smoother and faster you become. The main thing is to 'make haste slowly' so you do not step off and do the big cart wheel. If I go to Winton, it usually takes me 5 laps to get up to 90% of race speed. The next time will not be so easy, as I will have more gears and I will have to establish where they are in relation to the circuit. If you do this stuff and you get ragged or jerky, you will certainly crash. (The last 10% of race speed comes on the second day of a two day race meeting). Nice and deliberate and super smooth is the way to go. Fast enough is all you need. These days, I tend to ride only at the circuits I know, especially at Winton I always know where I am at without thinking about it. There should be no anxiety about racing - it is all in the mind.

So sorry Alan but what you state only applies to corner cripples and lucky souls that have luxury to work up methodical instead of instantly thrown into conditions there is nothing to loose going BERSERK. I try to do it like you say of course but after so so many upsets almost none my fault [but riding] I've been force into the insane side of riding philosphy - which is about impossible on anything else but my always predicable tri-linked C'do. Almost everyone works up to the unpredicable states and trys to stay just below that, but I've had to learn ways beyond that - so much so I shudder knowing how close to crashing most every racer is that's really trying. Not good enough for me - finally getting healed up and settled down enough life is worth living in second half of 62 yr old I don't care to risk life - limb on the craft everyone else looks up to in awe, just for so little extra thrill so close to their limits, you really can not predict so basically much depend on luck too often - which we constantly see by the crashes. If I'm beat by another rider then I'm beat fair and square but know better to try to take chance on pressing a tad harsher that their cycle may be able to tolerate but mine can't, SPLAT!

Your Seeley 850 sounds very predicable and always makes me grin and shiver a bit on your delights but I know you are not having as much fun as I am on Peel as you ain't breaking free of traction and surface in glee like I can on Peel.

Consider popping over a Gravel crest going 40's to see 50 yds ahead a log skidder pulling log out of woods by heavy chain stretched completely across the path and escapes,,, Consider a down hill coast to a one lane no railing bridge that is suddenly filled with a cattle trailer, suddenly going exta slow seeing me so thinking like normal people safer to slow down... Consider a rear blow out that de-rims tires going 55 over a paved crest... Consider a tight lean powered INTO and section of ice broken pavement lets go... Consdider a drop into hyw turn with muddy wash over suddenly under you unseen as storm wind gust lifts leaned bike/rider mass out of effective control contact just then... Consider a racer on track loosing it and flying into your path... Consider a deer about to jump a fence right in front of ya and snags a hoof on the wire to flip on its head in a pile a foot in front of ya... Condider a tractor with three 4 ft long bare hay bail spikes in front popping around a rock face completely blocking space between fence on far side and bluff face on the other so only escape from impaling is essentially a vertical wall you must ride up like jumping form obersvation deck into Barrel of Death stunter... Consider comming around a tight bend at safe speed right into a dead tree fall with bare limbs sticking out like spears... I could go on and on for pages and pages, so creeping up on riding limits is crazy making advice to me.

. I could go on and on for pages and pages, so creeping up on riding limits is crazy making advice to me.

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sure, please do Hobot

love to hear more...

Steve, there is a ward full of injured motorcyclists in the Alfred Hospital in Melbourne. They are all happy in there talking bullshit to each other.

hobot said:

I try to do it like you say of course but after so so many upsets almost none my fault [but riding]

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This is hilarious. :lol:

Right up there next to all those times my dog ate my homework. Not my fault :lol: