Gearbox layshaft bearing install? (2011)

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spanky1

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Jan 27, 2011
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Ok I've looked on the site for anything concerning this install, I'm just not seeing it or just not understanding what I'm reading. Anyways I've never seen this type of bearing before in a Norton Gear box. Here's the Question and pic below,,,
The Ball Bearing 06-7710 for Layshaft has a inner race that comes out of the bearing. Does the hat side of the race fit next to the gearbox case or on the shaft. The old one is one piece bearing.
I was thinking If I pressed the race on the layshaft, the shaft would be able to come out If I needed to take it apart again but, I would have a hard time pulling the bearing because there would be no race there to pull it out with.
If I press the bearing in with the race (Hat side) next to the gearbox I would have to press the shaft into the race, the race would be pressing against the gearbox case.
What is the right way to do it?

Gearbox layshaft bearing install? (2011)
 
That's not a ball bearing. It's a roller bearing. I think, but not sure since I got Hemmings ball bearing, that the inner race goes on the shaft and the outer shell goes in the casting. Yes, the shaft will pull straight out of the outer bearing, but there is a recess under the outer shell you can get under to pull it out if it doesn't drop out with heat if you need to change it. I understand with the roller bearings you need to shim the clearance, but there are articles about that.

Sorry to be so vague, but welcome.

Dave
69S
 
Like Dave says but definitely heat case at least 250-300'F to assure it accepts the race no problemo. If races gets cockeyed and trapped you need half again more heat to get it out as it fast colds locked in cockeyed starting at you dumbly. ugh.
Mostly the issue is the bore gets so eat up it will not hold race still at operating temps. I found assembly w/o any gaskets between case and inner cover help take out the lay shaft slack most have to shim for. There is no need or reason for crushable gaskets in trany as verified by bigger experts than me. Oh yeah I place brearing on end of layshaft as handle to get it down in there usually the first time now.
 
Yes heat case hot, freeze bearing and put on shaft to install by hand. Shouldn't need to drift in, but may, but don't bang on bearing, just rim with socket the size of outer bearing.

Dave
69S
 
Just to help clarify. Put the outter race in the case, the inner race on the shaft. When I put mine in, I used the inner race on the shaft as my instalation tool and after heating just slid the outter into place.

When it comes time to take it out, just heat the case with the bearing facing down and it will drop out or pop out when you slap the case against a piece of wood.

Russ
 
Ok I will try it tomorrow,
I was kinda leery about the bearing removal because I tried the oven at 300 degrees F and knock it on the deck method, it didn't work. I had to use a blind puller to get it out ..
Thanks for all the help.
Man What did we use to do before the Internet , this site has the best members!
 
I was kinda leery about the bearing removal because I tried the oven at 300 degrees F and knock it on the deck method, it didn't work. I had to use a blind puller to get it out ..
Click to expand...

Ugh Spanky1 did I ever run into that issue too, so looked up on interweb what the Al could take and upped the heat into 450'F oil smoking burn off range and then the bugger would knock out on wood block. If you don't get it right the first time there's even less thermal difference with race unfroozen swollen more. I like to use a pancake tank top heater with item held by wire or big pliers or welder type gloves. Beside the interweb luxury we now have can ya imagine the poor blokes before propane torches got to be common. The late Mr. Hudson of Norton factory fame and producer of the first engine and gear box video, caught his work bench on fire with one of these, so camera man had to jump in and put it out.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSUQaaARIN4&feature=related[/video]
 
I've removed but 2 of these bearings and in both cases I had to make up a puller to get them out even with the heat, but now I have it.

Dave
69S
 
Another critical aspect is the shimming for clearance of the kickstart shaft. I found this to be a bit of a hassle. It must be done with the gasket being used for the final assembly and torque to spec. If by chance you need to change the gasket, it must be the same thickness as the one used for shimming and/or reshim.

I removed my roller layshaft bearing upgrade and replace with a good quality ball unit, not prone to failure. No shimming and no worries.

After venturing into the gearbox a few times, I realize that this is fairly easy swap out. If I feel the need, and I don’t think I will, I can be in and out in an hour.
 
I have the opposite situation the lay shaft bearing came out with the lay shaft and the main shaft bearing came out on the sleeve gear. Is there a way to make this right besides Loc-Tite?
 
If the bearing housings are worn too large then get the OD of the bearings copper plated on the OD, the rest is masked off and is untouched. Copper is hard enough to work but soft enough so you can get it plated 1 or 2 thou oversized and then use emery cloth to get back to size. The other fix is a non starter as the bearings are too close together, that would be steel sleeves pressed into opened out housings. Loctite is problematic when used on steel bearings in alloy housings in engines, it might work in a cooler gearbox but does fail in hotter engines due to the heat cycles breaking down the loctite, you could try but a check stripdown after a 1000 miles would be in order.
 
norwood said:
I have the opposite situation the lay shaft bearing came out with the lay shaft and the main shaft bearing came out on the sleeve gear. Is there a way to make this right besides Loc-Tite?
Click to expand...

Do you mean without heating the gearbox shell first?
 
Yes, without heat, I bought this gearbox for parts its a shame the shell is bad. I just couldn't pass up it up for the price there's still a good amount good parts. Last year I was on my 73 Norton and the gearbox let go on me good thing I was doing only 30mph and straight I knew something was up about 5 mins before just trying to get her home. I'll rebuild it right. I like riding the Atlas anyway. Thanks L.A.B. and kommando good idea with the copper.
 
I've read on one of the various How To guides (OldBrits or the Mick Hemmings magazine article) that there is a Locktite product for bearing races. Wouldn't have thought the gearbox gets particularly hot enough under normal use to bother locktite. Typically, the higher temp Locktites (Red or green) require propane torch to release parts.
I used the green type, low viscosity Locktite for the mainshaft steel bushing on right side of box. It was not well held in the cover opening.
 
Old Brits has a great article covering all of these details including the shimming using the old isolastic shims. I think they sell a kit which includes all of the gearbox bearing (I replaced all of my gearbox bearings). I heated the case in the oven at 350 (wife wasn't home) banged it on the bench and the old ones dropped out. The drive side main shaft bearing was the hardest one to get in so I made an insertion tool with a piece of all thread, it's a little far down to do by hand. The only thing I'd watch for is if you replace the ball bearing in the inner cover make sure you check the plain bearing as you heat the inner cover, my plain bearing moved out and after trying to re-assemble it I realized what happened and had to reseat the plain bearing.
 
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